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OpenID abelmolina said...

Not sure how relevant this is to the post motivation, and might be obvious, but felt this might be worth sharing : ) - it seems that when people talk about rights, they are not usually operating within the context of philosophy, rather an activism one.

Philosophically speaking, it feels right not to see "rights" as something embedded in the fabric of the universe, and rather as human goals which might or might not be achieved (Heinlein does have a pretty expressive quote about this: https://www.google.com/search?q=heinlein+quote+rights+drowning+pacific, remember first being introduced to that point of view by it).

However, this doesn't seem so much the case at the activism level. It is a fact that within the framework of Western societies, there are policy (and social) decisions to establish which "rights" are going to be hard to violate, and which ones not so much. Trying to affect those choices seems like a pretty reasonable goal - and the language of "rights" and entitlement to them can and has been effective in that context.

Sunday, September 28, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Even activists have reasons for doing what they do, believes about how society should be and how to achieve that ideal. Thus they also do philosophy. Occupy is one of the most interesting philosophical movements in recent centuries.

One has to remember that Heinlein also had a philosophy: TANSTAFL. This sums up Libertarianism, Heinlein was an old fashioned American Libertarian. And Star Ship Troopers is one of the less brilliant of his philosophical works. I'd suggest looking more closely at Stranger in a Strange Land, or any of the Moon books (Moon is a Harsh Mistress). I read a lot of Heinlein in my teens, but find his hardcore Libertarianism objectionable these days. I think he belongs in the same camp as L R Hubbard, i.e. with the religious fanatics, but he is of course a much better writer.

It's true that the ocean doesn't owe us anything. As an ex-surfer I know all too well how the ocean feels about people. It does not. But we don't live in an ocean. We live in a society - an interconnected and layered group of people with multiple dependencies and emergent properties. How we deal with the less fortunate, the levels of inequality we allow, our ability to protect the weak amongst us is the measure of our society. And if you read Robin Dunbar's new book on Human Evolution (from Pelican) you'll see that these are precisely the evolutionary reasons for adopting social lifestyles in the first place. Libertarianism runs counter to the basic evolutionary drives of humanity. It's the philosophy of free-riders who don't want their ability to exploit the situation to be curtailed. In fact our future lies with team players and working together. See also my response to comments earlier today on The Nature of Reality?

Sunday, September 28, 2014

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