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Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

A little extra thought on this is that the tree metaphor encourages us to erroneously think of diversification as a one way process. Thus we frequently see examples of diversification within a species put forward as "proof" for speciation. If two varieties of a species occur and become distinct in some way then most evolutionary thinking seems to assume that this process must eventually result in two distinct species. This leaves out the possibility of recombination or hybridisation.

The paradigm of evolution at present does not really allow for hybridisation except as a rare, unproductive exception. This is why news that modern Europeans share DNA with Neanderthals and Denisovians is big and surprising news. Whereas in fact hybridisation is not rare and frequently productive. We ought not to be surprised that two closely related species hybridise. It is common and normal.

No model of evolution which leaves hybridisation out of the picture is valid or even interesting. Thus I am more attracted to the evolutionary theory put forward by Lynn Margulis than I am by the one put forward by Richard Dawkins.

Friday, December 27, 2013

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Another small thought. When two manuscript traditions hybridise it's called "contamination". That is to say if a traditional editor/scribe consults another manuscript and alters theirs accordingly, presumably to find a better reading, then that is known as "contamination".

Again the assumption here is that binary divisions are the norm and that recombination is an exception.

It's true that such "contamination" is often unsystematic, but still it's common enough to warrant a more neutral term than "contamination".

Friday, December 27, 2013

Blogger Adam Cope said...

Thanks Jayarava for another enjoyable grafting of 'evolution' onto 'buddhism'. After clades, now the braids.

The notion of braids or currents & cross-currents is far more wide spread in models of art history than 'buddhism'. I suppose this is because of there being less need to claim direct lineage back to one root source i.e. one man called Siddharta Gautma.(who is post Jakata Tales of course).

Great post about the Shakya clan BTW (sorry of my spelling, i write in haste but have been mulling over this for some time now). Some people think that Maitreya will be group-think rather than an individual.

What I was wondering was... where does all this leave the debate between Conservatives & Progressives? I mean, if textual authority & linking back to Buddha no longer gives a 301 transfer of link authority, to use a http analogy... then what use are old texts & even religious figures from the past?

A continuation - something like DNA?



Saturday, January 04, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

Hi Adam,

Cheers again. What immediately comes to mind are two phrases "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him" and "a special transmission outside the scriptures".

But in fact the old texts are interesting on several levels.

They are a body of literature from which we can try to understand the authors. As literature they embody a thought world that is really quite interesting. Not as a panacea, but at least as the record of a community that thinks it has one. Now, I don't think anyone would argue that Buddhist texts enmasse are a great literature, but within the dross there is some gold. And folk like me enjoy panning for it.

In philosophical terms there are some interesting ideas here that foe me retain their relevance to the present. The epistemological questions around how we know experience and what we deduce on the basis of experience seem very fresh to me - the early Buddhists seem to ask more interesting questions about experience than modern philosophers and their own later intellectual descendants did.

We can also get practical hints about the methods of the ancients and how they employed them. As any practitioner knows we all lose inspiration from time to time and the ancient texts cam be a great source of inspiration - particularly the more biographical stories of people struggling with human problems that don't seem to have gone away: facing death and grief, facing assaults on our persons or dignity and so on.

Most people struggle with concepts that are abstract. ideas like morality are best communicated in stories with people or people-like creatures (talking animals and so on) as protagonists. The idea of a human being free of greed and hatred can really only be communicated in an embodied form. So the figure of the Buddha will remain important despite my iconoclasm - oddly enough he is important to me too! I often find myself trying to imagine what his life might have been like growing up amongst the Śākyas in the foothills of the Himalayas. Like him I came from a small town in a peripheral nation.

I know there are a few cold iconoclasts who want to rub the Buddha out, dismantle Buddhism and replace it with a rational revision, and generally remove all those elements which cannot be proved by science. Basically I think they just don't understand humans very well - they're a bit autistic. They want to get rid of all the stories.

People want stories, and the more fabulous the better. When we left Africa 65,000 years ago we took animal skins, some flint tools, the ability to make fire, and a whole bunch of stories. We walked for 20,000 years to reach Australia and eventually walked all the way to Tierra del Feugo. Those stories were preserved, embellished and added to. They evolved into our myths. We are the apes who tell stories.

My mission is for us to have stories that are consistent with science, not to replace one with the other. The story that Lynn Margulis told about evolution as community ecology over time is one that I think is really important.

Sunday, January 05, 2014

Blogger Adam Cope said...

Thanks . Your explanations are very clear. I enjoy how you re-tell the old stories with close attention to sanskrit. As a non scholar & non sanskrit reader, I find this helpful.

In my own way, as an artist, I too struggle with iconography.

Re-New Zealand... and now you've even got Orcs, Elves & Balrogs!

Re-Evolution. It is of course the big story of genesis, our origins, how we came to be. What I was wondering was how is the sanskrit in the Buddha's genesis statement: "this is because that is"? Is the verb Bhava? There must be a 'to be' verb in there somewhere. Sorry to pester you with questions.

Monday, January 06, 2014

Blogger Jayarava Attwood said...

I'll deal with this question first.

The phrase is:

imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti
imass' uppādā idaṃ uppajjati
imasmiṃ asati idaṃ na hoti
imassa nirodhā idaṃ nirujjhati


imasmiṁ - locative 3rd person pronoun (stem idam)
sati - locative of past participle of √as 'to be' (asti)
idaṁ - nominative 3rd person pronoun
hoti - dialect variant of √bhū 'to be' (bhavati)
uppādā - locative of verbal noun from ut√pad 'to arise, to come into being' (Skt. utpādyate P. uppajjati)
nirodhā - locative of verbal noun from the passive of ni√rudh 'to decease, to stop' (nirudhyate P. nirujjhati)

imasmin sati is a locative absolute construction. It means "while this is" or "when this is". By conrtast idam hoti is a simple statement 'this is' or 'this exists'. All the other phrases follow the same pattern.

So we have several verbs all meaning 'to be' - √as, √bhū and ut√pad. And a range of meanings which does include 'becoming' in except √as which is quite definitely 'it is'. When the Kaccānagotta Sutta says existence and non-existence doesn't apply it uses forms from √as - in Skt. astitā (being-ness) and nāstitā (non-beingness)

Monday, January 06, 2014

Blogger thrig said...

I am reminded of those explorers who spent so much time following somewhat arbitrary branches of rivers upstream to find the headwater of that drainage basin. Some of them did make maps along the way, which did help future generations…

Friday, May 16, 2014

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