It is disturbing that many of the most vocal Anti-Jihad European parts of a racist agenda. We don't want Eurabia, but we also don't want anything remotely resembling a Fourth Reich either. By the way racism is counter to Christianity in many ways. For one thing, it goes against the idea that God loves all his children.
Ya know, part of me is so tired of trying to explain something so basic to humanity as the anti-racist message to these inbred morons. The problem is not that they are (mostly) brown it is the cultural depravity that Islam, in particular Wahabi's represent....I'm tired of ill informed Anti Jihadi's, often even Jews, telling me that it's OK for Neo NAZI groups to take over in my home country, put me in a death camp, because it will stop the Muslims (thanks so,so,so much Pamela)...Frankly if people don't get it yet...that there is no point in defeating the enemy if we have to become as perverse and warped as the enemy...(then we've lost all ready)...If people can't see the FUCKING FIRE IN THE TREES BECAUSE OF THEIR RETARDED RACISM...So to the Jihadi's and the Nazi's, who are all the same scum to me...BRING IT ON. ENOUGH TALK. LETS GO. You want a Balkans?...I for one am ready for you...
What I have always feared would be the result of this war is that Europe would become a balkanized continent of walled city-states. That's where tribalism inevitably will lead. Me and my brother against my cousin, etc. ...
Oh...pps....Patriotism and Nationalism are two radically different things.....I've sat on that for ages....Patriotism....is loyalty to the state.....Nationalism...defines an (often)ethnic, ancestral lineage and connection to the land, to the excluding new arrivals from ever having a stake in that society (land)AKA an immigrant can never ever be integrated into that society....(PAMELA)...America, Canada etc are patriotic because the State is the ideology, Europe it is Nationalism where complexion defines belonging.....or not.
Remember Problem...Chaos Solution..? The Islamisation will happen thusly....the Ethno Nationalist agenda will be fed by continued outrageous demands from Islam on us Liberal Europeans, eventually resulting (as we are seeing in the UK) a massive swing away from mainstream politics towards ethno nationalists...eventually culminating in Balkanization and the associated ethnic conflict, it won't be a civil war (as in brother against brother or cousin) but will likely be Whites (not necessarily EUROPEAN) against the non whites, erupting in pockets across Europe but eventually involving all of Western Europe. Here we see the Chaos stage. This Chaos will enable the Jihadi's to engage in open warfare across Europe (think Lebanon), their intention being to militarily annex Europe and force the remaining resistant area's to capitulate, by offering the war weary residents dhimmitude....the 'Solution'. The Ethno Nationalist will not win in a conflict of this nature...ultimately the Jihadists will, which is why I get so angry at them...as they are boneheadidly selling us all out to Islam.
You and I have different definitions of Nationalism, but I generally agree with you. I define a nation as a group of people who choose to live together based upon a code of ideas. America is a nation. Being proud of the American ideology and the accomplishments thereof is Patriotism.
Tribalism doesn't really produce cohesive nations. That's why Europe has had so much trouble defining its borders over the years.
You and I have different definitions of Nationalism, but I generally agree with you. I define a nation as a group of people who choose to live together based upon a code of ideas. America is a nation. Being proud of the American ideology and the accomplishments thereof is Patriotism.
Tribalism doesn't really produce cohesive nations. That's why Europe has had so much trouble defining its borders over the years.
Resistance to Islamization is not a matter of ideology, as one prominent American “anti-Jihadist” seems to think.
Of all the statements in Belien's essay, that is the most disturbing one to me.
If the resistance to Islamification is not ideologically based, then the resistance must logically devolve to a resistance based on race. Why do I say that? Because when I try to pin down many Europeans as to the meaning of European culture, those same Europeans either (1) can't give me a definition or (2) resort to using racial terminology.
One of my concerns regarding the "counter jihad" is that so many counter-jihadists are busy standing against something, yet cannot agree as to what the resistance to Islamification should be standing for--IN SPECIFIC TERMS.
During the American Revolution (which wasn't in the minds of the Founding Fathers a revolution at all, but rather a correction addressing the violated rights of Englishmen), one term used was "The Sons of Liberty." The colonists were, first and foremost standing up and being counted in advocation FOR certain principles and rights.
Note: I may not be expressing myself very well in the above because I find myself suffering from low spirits as I see what's happening to a large part of the "counter jihad."
I think you are expressing yourself very well, and I agree.
All of us, every single man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth were born with the same inalienable rights; to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And, if the governments of the world can't get that through their thick skulls, then, regime change will be necessary.
In the United states I pledge allegiance to the flag and the constitution, in the UK we pledge allegiance to the HM the Queen....My family were Imperial migrants to the UK and idealogical (aswell as economic) migrants to America...which is why I have 2 cousins all ready on deployment and a brother enroute to Iraq/Afghanistan...and that I think is the key here...
AOW, good to hear from you, Pastorius AOW as you all probably remeber I have spent time in both the US and UK so can make comparisons....I agree with you both, I fear Europe will not be able to act NOW, to prevent the events I described earlier....which is why I am returning to North America, for reasons of idealogy. America is far from perfect...but it is a lot closer to the ideals as expressed by IBA and Pastorius 'll of us, every single man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth were born with the same inalienable rights; to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And, if the governments of the world can't get that through their thick skulls, then, regime change will be necessary.' This is what I 100% subscribe to. Israel is far from perfect, she committed acts I disagree with and am critical of but in a value judgment I would pick up a rifle in defense of Israel against an Islamic onslaught.
Is there no other way for Europe to resist Islamification than via ancestral lineage?
If you had asked me that 5 years ago I would have replied in a much more optimistic manner,perhaps being far more Londoncentric in my outlook. Having spent time away from London I realized that London was unique, sheltered me even. I am a Londoner rather than English, the sense of belonging that America has was present in London....but to my surprise...not throughout the rest of Britain. I don't even recognise London today. As a Brixtonian I see Sommali gangs robbing and pillaging. The reaction has seen a knee jerk rise in votes for the BNP and the election to mayor of an old school Etonian inadequate in Boris Johnson. Things are going to get worse..
As as American, I find that difficult to understand.
AOW, I know and I agree with the logic that leads you to not understand. I of course argue that there is other ways. Of course! But the resentment the Islamists have generated in the white population who make up about 90% of the overall population, combined with 30 years or so of really bad governance, frankly does not lead to an optimistic prognosis...
Pastorius re Tribalism, I would say that that phenomena is already under way and has been bubbling away for at least the last 5 years or so, remember that story about the Islamic girls school....?
Watcher, You say Israel has committed acts with which you disagree. Ok. Who accused them of those acts?
Muslims.
Look all over the world, and you will find that almost every conflict has Muslims at the center of it. In Sudan, in Beslan, in Nigeria, in Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillipines, India/Kashmir, all across the ME, Morocco, the Parisian suburbs, Madrid, London, etc. etc. etc.
In all of those cases Muslims justify their attacks by claiming that atrocities were committed against them.
Why would you believe it was true in Israel, of all places?
As I said I make a value judgment. No state can exist without occasionaly making mistakes or getting blood on their hands. It is reality and I am a realist politically. I make a value judgment and Israel always wins my critical support. I think a friend who is never willing to critcise you and just always agrees with you is a shallow superficial friend....you follow me?
LOL, I'm just laughing....did you actually think that tactical errors that Israel occasionaly makes even compare to the mildest forms of Islamic savagery?...I watched a film on you Tube yesterday where a man in Saudi was threw his wife over the balcony of 4/5 storey building...do you think he was charged?...Israel had a scandal a few years back where African Jewish blood donated at blood drives was routinely disposed of instead of being used. Disgusting! Yet at least in Israel it caused a scandal and outrage and the situation was rectified.....the story was broken by white Israeli Jews. How can I not support them....?
Watcher, Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. I was just trying to get clarification. Yes, of course, you are right that Israel, like America and Britain, makes mistakes. And, we all need to be criticized when we make mistakes, so that we can learn from them and get better.
This is all so simple. Belien: "The VB is critical of immigration for exactly the same reason why it demands Flemish independence: because it wants to preserve Flemish national identity."
As Dewinter said.. and REFUSED TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM LAST FALL ..that means a white europe.
Aside from loathing islamism (and maybe islam itself, depending on muslims), what values do we share with such people?
In 1941 we made cause with Stalin, and begat a nuclear power we had to oppose with mujahideen in 1979+, and now we should make cause with racists against other racists, this time mujahideen?
I didn't know Belien wife was VB.
If someone can distinguish for me what is DIFFERNT between VB and the C of CC, that would impress me.
For our european friends,the C of CC is the KKK inthe country club, made smart by 50 years of federal and american cultural stomping.
I have a flash for these moronic people, all of them. We actually have very little in common with you.
In the end you will be forced to choose by color, race, and religion in the name of cultural defense, because you are too afraid to live in the world. You may be against Islamist freaks right now, but that's because they are a subset of what you really hate, OTHERS who look different, think, behave, dress, believe and live differently than you do.
Nothing stays the same. So sorry, but after 3500 years of recorded history, morons, is that not yet clear?
Pastorius, I didn't feel like you were attacking me but what is clear is the different meaning of words like Nationalism, between Europe and America. So by and large when a European (and remember we are not one entity but culturally radically diverse)uses the word Nationalism...use caution. I also take the position that a true friend will take you aside and say...'your being stupid, sort it out! That is a bad idea' etc and I apply this principle to those I support. No one, and no nation is or should regard itself as beyond criticism....especially from it's friends and allies...that road leads to the Dark side Luke!
Hi Epa,
'Aside from loathing islamism (and maybe islam itself, depending on muslims), what values do we share with such people?'
In 1941 we made cause with Stalin, and begat a nuclear power we had to oppose with mujahideen in 1979+, and now we should make cause with racists against other racists, this time mujahideen?'
Exactly. Exactly. We should not make a deal with the devil to fight the devil.
'In the end you will be forced to choose by color, race, and religion in the name of cultural defense, because you are too afraid to live in the world.'
and that, I feel, is the root cause of European ethnic nationalism. An inability to exist in the modern multi ethnic world, as America and Canada generally manage to do. There is so much that is not like America and Canada here in Europe....so many things that most Americans just take for granted as being universally applied. My rights are NOT protected by any constitution. The Government could declare martial law tomorrow, without debate. All that stops them is literally ' a gentleman's agreement'. All we have is Magna Carte, which I propose is outdated, and does not address specific issues like Islam, which is why Islam flourishes in the UK. We need a UK constitution to ensure equality under the law. The CofCC...they sound like they have a real contribution to make...and they don't sound anything like the Klan at all.....Ok you got me..Yes I am being totally sarcastic. What a charming bunch of people they are!! LOL. Somebody just give them what they want so they will just climb back under the bridge. Ok I'll do it. 'THE ARYAN SUPERMAN IS SUPERIOR TO THE NEGRO UNTERMENSCHEN' Good, there, now it's said...they will hopefully bugger off and leave the real work to the grown ups! I mean really! 'My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard!...Damn right it's better than yours!'....All I see there is ' Whitey is better than those Niggers!' Aliases like 'the unreconstructed Southerner'...! Who are you kidding!...Just call yourselves the Klan and be done with it, Douche!
Sunday, May 18, 2008 3:44:00 pm
Anonymous said...
Excellent. We will at least be spared the European kind of Chaos. We are not blood-and-soil ethnic nationalist trogs and we have a Constitution. Just those two points should give us such a commanding lead against the Islamists that it would be absurd to even think they could gain a foothold. And yet here we are facing the possible, even probable, election of a racist, Marxist, Muslim-influenced fantasy figure to the Presidency because somehow there are still enough idiots in this country to fall for his mystique. Oh yeah, and the UN is sending in a watchdog to make sure there is no "racist" hanky-panky going on against their chosen candidate, who referes to his granny as a "Typical White Person."
You are right, Watcher, we have so much here that they lack in Europe and yet enough people refuse to see it, or bother to learn about it, or make the effort to understand it that they are willing to listen to the malicious siren song that our souls are "sick" and we need to chug on the snake oil Obama is selling in order to "cure" us. You've lived both places... do you see something in Americans that will make us wake up and use our Constitution and our unique strengths in time?
Revereridesagain, I have to say that I have 1/more confidence in my personal right to defend myself and family from Islamic aggression in the US (as per the second amendment) and 2/ have more confidence in the 'attitude' of the US political structure and 'tone' towards Islam, certainly than I do in the UK. Thats sad but it is the truth. Don't get the impression that white Europe are ALL Nazi's, No, far from it...but the political main stream is not addressing the issues that are crippling and frustrating the population, housing/fuel/Islam, creating immense frustration that is driving people into the arms of parties like the BNP. As far as Obama goes, you might all be surprised that I don't favor him either, I have deliberately stayed out of the debate though...I must say I don't find his speeches 'awe' inspiring, more like empty platitudes. As far as Americans resisting Islam...In my humble opinion, Americans are ultimately to rambunctious to quietly lay down and be subjugated by anyone...ultimately. That is also neither a reason nor an excuse for complacency however. It is just a question of keeping the counter jihad as an idealogical war and not allowing the situation to be hijacked and devolved into divisive ethnic conflict as the Jihadis want us to....They have engineered this situation, divide and conquer mate! If we are at each others throats, then how will we defend ourselves...?
Watcher, If, as you say, the Jihadis have engineered this situation so that we Infidels are too involved in internecine ethnic conflict to fight the Jihad, well then, they are brilliant. It is clear to me that the Jihadis piggy-back on leftist causes, one of those being the hatred of "Dead White Men" and white hegemony in general. The Jihadis are smart enough in my opinion, to use hatred of whites as a way of rallying the third world against America and the Western world.
I think they often exploit the naivety of the left, so piggy back, maybe thats a fair comment. I think the third world is being carved up as we speak between China, Islam and smaller regional interests. In so far as hatred for 'Dead White Men', Shakespeare is as important as Equiano for me. The Jihadi, I think, will use any tool that presents itself. I'm not in this to support White Hegemony, I am in this to support Hegemony of the free...if you will.
Pastorius, IMO, jihadis are smart--at least, their leaders are.
I'm not sure they have engineered the situation, but I am sure they will take advantage of the strife and turn it to their advantage. In fact, I think that some counter-jihadists have jumped on board the ethnocentric bandwagon just to avoid "losing."
Note: This is not to say that we should shut up and go along with the trend of ethnocentric nationalism as the means to combat Islamification. NOT AT ALL!
Understand that when I say engineered I'm not suggesting they are like some 'Illuminati'. I mean as Aow interpreted, that where there is tension the exploit it. You have to remember that with my complexion they often view me as a potential convert, presuming that experiences of racism in the UK will have made me hate the British state etc. When I have conversations with them they keep saying 'we use their rules against them'...I was having a debate with this one guy, a builder and on the surface quite western. The conversation turned to Iraq and then Palestine. Eventually I said 'well here you have freedom and can worship how you please, that is the benefit of our liberal society' he replied 'yes and we shall use that liberal freedom to work against them'. When we talk they often assume that I will be against the 'man' and supportive of them. It is clear to me that Islam works like a virus, infiltrating and then exploiting any weakness they find. It's no coincidence they recruit so many converts in prison...Their lobby groups make provocative demands on a state that strives to be tolerant, using freedom of speech to announce 'Freedom of speech go to hell!....Behead those who insult Islam!'..ETC or demanding Islamic only swimming times in pools, or how about the recognition and adoption of Sharia law by the British police and courts (allowing them to enforce and practice sharia within their community, free from interference from the police or judiciary)..in doing so attempting to trigger a reaction. These are not random unconnected Islamic stupidity but are an attempt to create an atmosphere of hostility and tension. Social engineering at the grass roots level. So yes they are the ultimate opportunists...who take orders from their clerics, who take orders from Saudi Arabia.
Well, just remember, if you ever feel like becoming a blogger, you are invited here. You have some great stories and perspectives.
Monday, May 19, 2008 2:09:00 am
[Image] In a horror movie, it is the missing element, the unexplained element which provides the horror. We are frightened by the only-partially-revealed. We are even more frightened when this only-partially-revealed element has the power to shape events in the real world.
Paul Belien, himself, is such a horror. He gives us only a piece of his ideology. It is the missing part which is malevolent.
The success of the Northern League was the pivotal element in the victory of Mr. Berlusconi’s alliance. It enabled him to win an absolute majority in the Italian parliament.
... Like the parties in Catalonia and the Basque country, the Northern League (full name: Lega Nord per l’Indipendenza della Padania—Northern League for the Independence of Padania) is a regionalist, indeed separatist, party. Padania, in case you have never heard of it, does not exist as a nation; it is the collective name that the League uses to denote the various regions of northern Italy (such as Lombardy, Piedmont, Venice, Tuscany, South Tyrol, and others). The League is made up of several parties (including the Lega Lombarda, the Liga Veneta, the Alleanza Toscana) that want to restore to their regions the sovereignty that they enjoyed prior to the formation of the Italian State in the 19th century.
As Mr Mura points out, the “apolitical” Northern League is in politics not for the sake of politics itself, but to “defend the territory.” There is something remarkable going on here, though it will never hit the mainstream media because the latter do not want to see it:
The most successful anti-immigration parties in Europe are regionalist/secessionist parties. They are “apolitical” because they do not particularly like politics. Their militants, members and voters do not like the state, they want to be left alone. They defend local communities that want to run their own affairs. They are parties of the land and the community, rather than the state. They are, as the media and the political establishment derisively call them, “populists.”
Owing to the massive immigration by people from an entirely different culture, many ordinary Europeans no longer feel at home in their own countries. Home is that cosy, often small, place where people feel safe among those whom they know and trust. The fight for the preservation of Europe is a fight for one’s own home, village, town, city, provence. That is why it is a localist issue.
Resistance to Islamization is not a matter of ideology, as one prominent American “anti-Jihadist” seems to think. The successful resistance in Europe has a provincial and an ethnic basis. It is about the right of the Europeans to hand their traditions, their identity, their cultural heritage down to their children so that the latter can continue to enjoy Europe’s ancient freedoms. The spirit of Old Lorraine has survived for 1,200 years. “Populist” parties in Flanders, Switzerland, Lombardia, Cologne and Alsace and other regions along the spine of Europe are popular for the simple reason that they are not prepared to let twelve centuries of capitalist self-reliance, self-governance and limited government fade away simply because foreigners are moving in with a spirit adapted to Arabian desert life.
“It is the wrong way to fight the global jihad,” writes the American anti-Islamist. “To form one group for indigenous Europeans, as has been done in several countries, reduces virtually every issue to the one non-negotiable issue of race and ethnicity, discourages cooperation, and thus encourages Balkanization, works against the idea of representative government, and obscures the common values of Judeo-Christian civilization that are shared by people of many races and ethnicities.”
Ethnicity, however, is not by definition a racial concept; it is a cultural one. Ethnicity is about the spirit, the culture that we share. For the above parties this culture is precisely the culture of limited government, of the common values of Western civilization, the adherence to home. Is all this bad because it is indigenous rather than ideological?
Belien is pulling a sleight-of-hand on us here. And, it is the sleight-of-hand upon which all good horror movies turn. The question is, are we dealing with something that is of they physical world, or are we dealing with spooky, spiritual substances?
Note that Belien tells us the resistance in Europe is made up of "parties of the land and the community." This is a new way of phrasing the old racialist meme of "Blood and Soil."
When this whole counter-Jihad argument began I attempted, in a number of essays, to get people to define their terms. The words in question are
Ethnicity Race Culture
Here Belien castigates Spencer for saying that the argument is about ideology, rather than his preferred term, "ethnicity."
Then , he turns around and says that ethnicity is not race. He asserts that Ethnicity is not a racial concept, but is instead about culture.
What is culture if it is not race, and yet it is not ideology either? How is it that "culture" occupies some mysterious ground between race and ideology?
Race, or blood, is of the physical world. Ideology is of the mind. One can not assert that culture is of both the mind and the body, unless one also believes that ideas proceed necessarily from race.
Ethnicity, also, is either of the body, or it is of the mind. It's either blood or idea.
Ideas are those things which can be codified in language. We pass on culture through the medium of language. Western Civilization has reached the great heights it has reached specifically because of it's ability to codify it's ideas in the written word. The Judeo-Christian tradition, in particular, teaches that God spoke creation into existence, and Christ the Messiah is referred to as the Word of God.
Western Civilization is built on the ideas of the mind codified in the written word. Pagan civilization is built on the tribalist idea that blood is more important than idea. Paganist Tribalism is the ideological foundation of racism. Paganist tribalism is necessarily mystical, precisely because it is incapable of codifying the notion that ideas proceed from race.
We know that blood and heredity are not mystical ideas, as Belien would have it. Blood and soil are physically-verifiable phenomena.
Blood and Soil, or as Belien prefers to put it, "the community and the land", are not mysteriously tied to Ethnicity. And, Ethnicity is not mysteriously tied to Culture. "Blood and Soil," is a statement of ownership. It is not, as a political concept, part of the substratum of Ethnicity. For anyone, of any race, can own soil.
Paul Belien's argument is illogical as it rests on undefined assumptions about race, ethnicity and culture. If a man can not clearly articulate his assumptions, then his argument is not worth considering, particularly not if his argument is political in nature, with the potential to affect the lives and well-being of the hundreds of millions of people who live in Western Civilization.
37 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment formIt is disturbing that many of the most vocal Anti-Jihad European parts of a racist agenda. We don't want Eurabia, but we also don't want anything remotely resembling a Fourth Reich either. By the way racism is counter to Christianity in many ways.
For one thing, it goes against the idea that God loves all his children.
Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:22:00 pm
I am unable to think of a way in which racism is not counter to Christianity.
Saturday, May 17, 2008 8:28:00 pm
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:29:00 am
Ya know, part of me is so tired of trying to explain something so basic to humanity as the anti-racist message to these inbred morons. The problem is not that they are (mostly) brown it is the cultural depravity that Islam, in particular Wahabi's represent....I'm tired of ill informed Anti Jihadi's, often even Jews, telling me that it's OK for Neo NAZI groups to take over in my home country, put me in a death camp, because it will stop the Muslims (thanks so,so,so much Pamela)...Frankly if people don't get it yet...that there is no point in defeating the enemy if we have to become as perverse and warped as the enemy...(then we've lost all ready)...If people can't see the FUCKING FIRE IN THE TREES BECAUSE OF THEIR RETARDED RACISM...So to the Jihadi's and the Nazi's, who are all the same scum to me...BRING IT ON. ENOUGH TALK. LETS GO. You want a Balkans?...I for one am ready for you...
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:31:00 am
...Ps Hi Damien, Pastorius...good to see you both again...
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:32:00 am
What I have always feared would be the result of this war is that Europe would become a balkanized continent of walled city-states. That's where tribalism inevitably will lead. Me and my brother against my cousin, etc. ...
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:39:00 am
WATCHER71,
Your welcome!
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:40:00 am
Oh...pps....Patriotism and Nationalism are two radically different things.....I've sat on that for ages....Patriotism....is loyalty to the state.....Nationalism...defines an (often)ethnic, ancestral lineage and connection to the land, to the excluding new arrivals from ever having a stake in that society (land)AKA an immigrant can never ever be integrated into that society....(PAMELA)...America, Canada etc are patriotic because the State is the ideology, Europe it is Nationalism where complexion defines belonging.....or not.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:41:00 am
Remember Problem...Chaos Solution..? The Islamisation will happen thusly....the Ethno Nationalist agenda will be fed by continued outrageous demands from Islam on us Liberal Europeans, eventually resulting (as we are seeing in the UK) a massive swing away from mainstream politics towards ethno nationalists...eventually culminating in Balkanization and the associated ethnic conflict, it won't be a civil war (as in brother against brother or cousin) but will likely be Whites (not necessarily EUROPEAN) against the non whites, erupting in pockets across Europe but eventually involving all of Western Europe. Here we see the Chaos stage. This Chaos will enable the Jihadi's to engage in open warfare across Europe (think Lebanon), their intention being to militarily annex Europe and force the remaining resistant area's to capitulate, by offering the war weary residents dhimmitude....the 'Solution'. The Ethno Nationalist will not win in a conflict of this nature...ultimately the Jihadists will, which is why I get so angry at them...as they are boneheadidly selling us all out to Islam.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:54:00 am
You and I have different definitions of Nationalism, but I generally agree with you. I define a nation as a group of people who choose to live together based upon a code of ideas. America is a nation. Being proud of the American ideology and the accomplishments thereof is Patriotism.
Tribalism doesn't really produce cohesive nations. That's why Europe has had so much trouble defining its borders over the years.
That's my opinion, anyway.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:57:00 am
You and I have different definitions of Nationalism, but I generally agree with you. I define a nation as a group of people who choose to live together based upon a code of ideas. America is a nation. Being proud of the American ideology and the accomplishments thereof is Patriotism.
Tribalism doesn't really produce cohesive nations. That's why Europe has had so much trouble defining its borders over the years.
That's my opinion, anyway.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:57:00 am
Hmm not so different.....America....the ideaoligy is the state, thus loyalty to the state driven by pride in the ideaoligy is patriotism.
Europe it is ancestral lineage rather than exclusively idealogical driven pride.
The second generation of an immigrant is American (I'm aware of the issues around La Raza, so generally). In Europe they remain foreign.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:03:00 am
According to Paul Belien:
Resistance to Islamization is not a matter of ideology, as one prominent American “anti-Jihadist” seems to think.
Of all the statements in Belien's essay, that is the most disturbing one to me.
If the resistance to Islamification is not ideologically based, then the resistance must logically devolve to a resistance based on race. Why do I say that? Because when I try to pin down many Europeans as to the meaning of European culture, those same Europeans either (1) can't give me a definition or (2) resort to using racial terminology.
One of my concerns regarding the "counter jihad" is that so many counter-jihadists are busy standing against something, yet cannot agree as to what the resistance to Islamification should be standing for--IN SPECIFIC TERMS.
During the American Revolution (which wasn't in the minds of the Founding Fathers a revolution at all, but rather a correction addressing the violated rights of Englishmen), one term used was "The Sons of Liberty." The colonists were, first and foremost standing up and being counted in advocation FOR certain principles and rights.
Note: I may not be expressing myself very well in the above because I find myself suffering from low spirits as I see what's happening to a large part of the "counter jihad."
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:10:00 am
Watcher 71,
Europe it is ancestral lineage rather than exclusively idealogical driven pride.
Is there no other way for Europe to resist Islamification than via ancestral lineage?
As as American, I find that difficult to understand.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:12:00 am
I think you are expressing yourself very well, and I agree.
All of us, every single man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth were born with the same inalienable rights; to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And, if the governments of the world can't get that through their thick skulls, then, regime change will be necessary.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:14:00 am
In the United states I pledge allegiance to the flag and the constitution, in the UK we pledge allegiance to the HM the Queen....My family were Imperial migrants to the UK and idealogical (aswell as economic) migrants to America...which is why I have 2 cousins all ready on deployment and a brother enroute to Iraq/Afghanistan...and that I think is the key here...
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:14:00 am
AOW, good to hear from you, Pastorius AOW as you all probably remeber I have spent time in both the US and UK so can make comparisons....I agree with you both, I fear Europe will not be able to act NOW, to prevent the events I described earlier....which is why I am returning to North America, for reasons of idealogy. America is far from perfect...but it is a lot closer to the ideals as expressed by IBA and Pastorius 'll of us, every single man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth were born with the same inalienable rights; to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And, if the governments of the world can't get that through their thick skulls, then, regime change will be necessary.' This is what I 100% subscribe to. Israel is far from perfect, she committed acts I disagree with and am critical of but in a value judgment I would pick up a rifle in defense of Israel against an Islamic onslaught.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:22:00 am
AOW
Is there no other way for Europe to resist Islamification than via ancestral lineage?
If you had asked me that 5 years ago I would have replied in a much more optimistic manner,perhaps being far more Londoncentric in my outlook. Having spent time away from London I realized that London was unique, sheltered me even. I am a Londoner rather than English, the sense of belonging that America has was present in London....but to my surprise...not throughout the rest of Britain. I don't even recognise London today. As a Brixtonian I see Sommali gangs robbing and pillaging. The reaction has seen a knee jerk rise in votes for the BNP and the election to mayor of an old school Etonian inadequate in Boris Johnson. Things are going to get worse..
As as American, I find that difficult to understand.
AOW, I know and I agree with the logic that leads you to not understand. I of course argue that there is other ways. Of course! But the resentment the Islamists have generated in the white population
who make up about 90% of the overall population, combined with 30 years or so of really bad governance, frankly does not lead to an optimistic prognosis...
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:34:00 am
Pastorius re Tribalism, I would say that that phenomena is already under way and has been bubbling away for at least the last 5 years or so, remember that story about the Islamic girls school....?
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:36:00 am
Watcher,
You say Israel has committed acts with which you disagree. Ok. Who accused them of those acts?
Muslims.
Look all over the world, and you will find that almost every conflict has Muslims at the center of it. In Sudan, in Beslan, in Nigeria, in Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillipines, India/Kashmir, all across the ME, Morocco, the Parisian suburbs, Madrid, London, etc. etc. etc.
In all of those cases Muslims justify their attacks by claiming that atrocities were committed against them.
Why would you believe it was true in Israel, of all places?
:)
Think about it.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:40:00 am
As I said I make a value judgment. No state can exist without occasionaly making mistakes or getting blood on their hands. It is reality and I am a realist politically. I make a value judgment and Israel always wins my critical support. I think a friend who is never willing to critcise you and just always agrees with you is a shallow superficial friend....you follow me?
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:47:00 am
LOL, I'm just laughing....did you actually think that tactical errors that Israel occasionaly makes even compare to the mildest forms of Islamic savagery?...I watched a film on you Tube yesterday where a man in Saudi was threw his wife over the balcony of 4/5 storey building...do you think he was charged?...Israel had a scandal a few years back where African Jewish blood donated at blood drives was routinely disposed of instead of being used. Disgusting! Yet at least in Israel it caused a scandal and outrage and the situation was rectified.....the story was broken by white Israeli Jews. How can I not support them....?
Sunday, May 18, 2008 1:54:00 am
Watcher,
Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. I was just trying to get clarification. Yes, of course, you are right that Israel, like America and Britain, makes mistakes. And, we all need to be criticized when we make mistakes, so that we can learn from them and get better.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 4:48:00 am
This is all so simple.
Belien: "The VB is critical of immigration for exactly the same reason why it demands Flemish independence: because it wants to preserve Flemish national identity."
As Dewinter said.. and REFUSED TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM LAST FALL ..that means a white europe.
Aside from loathing islamism (and maybe islam itself, depending on muslims), what values do we share with such people?
In 1941 we made cause with Stalin, and begat a nuclear power we had to oppose with mujahideen in 1979+, and now we should make cause with racists against other racists, this time mujahideen?
I didn't know Belien wife was VB.
If someone can distinguish for me what is DIFFERNT between VB and the C of CC, that would impress me.
For our european friends,the C of CC is the KKK inthe country club, made smart by 50 years of federal and american cultural stomping.
CofCC
I have a flash for these moronic people, all of them. We actually have very little in common with you.
In the end you will be forced to choose by color, race, and religion in the name of cultural defense, because you are too afraid to live in the world. You may be against Islamist freaks right now, but that's because they are a subset of what you really hate, OTHERS who look different, think, behave, dress, believe and live differently than you do.
Nothing stays the same. So sorry, but after 3500 years of recorded history, morons, is that not yet clear?
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:03:00 pm
BTW, Pasto, a superb post
Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:03:00 pm
Thanks, Epa.
And, by the way, yes, Belien's wife is VB. That is true.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 2:54:00 pm
Pastorius, I didn't feel like you were attacking me but what is clear is the different meaning of words like Nationalism, between Europe and America. So by and large when a European (and remember we are not one entity but culturally radically diverse)uses the word Nationalism...use caution. I also take the position that a true friend will take you aside and say...'your being stupid, sort it out! That is a bad idea' etc and I apply this principle to those I support. No one, and no nation is or should regard itself as beyond criticism....especially from it's friends and allies...that road leads to the Dark side Luke!
Hi Epa,
'Aside from loathing islamism (and maybe islam itself, depending on muslims), what values do we share with such people?'
In 1941 we made cause with Stalin, and begat a nuclear power we had to oppose with mujahideen in 1979+, and now we should make cause with racists against other racists, this time mujahideen?'
Exactly. Exactly. We should not make a deal with the devil to fight the devil.
'In the end you will be forced to choose by color, race, and religion in the name of cultural defense, because you are too afraid to live in the world.'
and that, I feel, is the root cause of European ethnic nationalism. An inability to exist in the modern multi ethnic world, as America and Canada generally manage to do. There is so much that is not like America and Canada here in Europe....so many things that most Americans just take for granted as being universally applied. My rights are NOT protected by any constitution. The Government could declare martial law tomorrow, without debate. All that stops them is literally ' a gentleman's agreement'. All we have is Magna Carte, which I propose is outdated, and does not address specific issues like Islam, which is why Islam flourishes in the UK. We need a UK constitution to ensure equality under the law. The CofCC...they sound like they have a real contribution to make...and they don't sound anything like the Klan at all.....Ok you got me..Yes I am being totally sarcastic. What a charming bunch of people they are!! LOL. Somebody just give them what they want so they will just climb back under the bridge. Ok I'll do it. 'THE ARYAN SUPERMAN IS SUPERIOR TO THE NEGRO UNTERMENSCHEN' Good, there, now it's said...they will hopefully bugger off and leave the real work to the grown ups! I mean really! 'My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard!...Damn right it's better than yours!'....All I see there is ' Whitey is better than those Niggers!' Aliases like 'the unreconstructed Southerner'...! Who are you kidding!...Just call yourselves the Klan and be done with it, Douche!
Sunday, May 18, 2008 3:44:00 pm
Excellent. We will at least be spared the European kind of Chaos. We are not blood-and-soil ethnic nationalist trogs and we have a Constitution. Just those two points should give us such a commanding lead against the Islamists that it would be absurd to even think they could gain a foothold. And yet here we are facing the possible, even probable, election of a racist, Marxist, Muslim-influenced fantasy figure to the Presidency because somehow there are still enough idiots in this country to fall for his mystique. Oh yeah, and the UN is sending in a watchdog to make sure there is no "racist" hanky-panky going on against their chosen candidate, who referes to his granny as a "Typical White Person."
You are right, Watcher, we have so much here that they lack in Europe and yet enough people refuse to see it, or bother to learn about it, or make the effort to understand it that they are willing to listen to the malicious siren song that our souls are "sick" and we need to chug on the snake oil Obama is selling in order to "cure" us. You've lived both places... do you see something in Americans that will make us wake up and use our Constitution and our unique strengths in time?
Sunday, May 18, 2008 6:17:00 pm
Revereridesagain,
I have to say that I have 1/more confidence in my personal right to defend myself and family from Islamic aggression in the US (as per the second amendment) and 2/ have more confidence in the 'attitude' of the US political structure and 'tone' towards Islam, certainly than I do in the UK. Thats sad but it is the truth. Don't get the impression that white Europe are ALL Nazi's, No, far from it...but the political main stream is not addressing the issues that are crippling and frustrating the population, housing/fuel/Islam, creating immense frustration that is driving people into the arms of parties like the BNP. As far as Obama goes, you might all be surprised that I don't favor him either, I have deliberately stayed out of the debate though...I must say I don't find his speeches 'awe' inspiring, more like empty platitudes. As far as Americans resisting Islam...In my humble opinion, Americans are ultimately to rambunctious to quietly lay down and be subjugated by anyone...ultimately. That is also neither a reason nor an excuse for complacency however. It is just a question of keeping the counter jihad as an idealogical war and not allowing the situation to be hijacked and devolved into divisive ethnic conflict as the Jihadis want us to....They have engineered this situation, divide and conquer mate! If we are at each others throats, then how will we defend ourselves...?
Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:54:00 pm
Watcher,
If, as you say, the Jihadis have engineered this situation so that we Infidels are too involved in internecine ethnic conflict to fight the Jihad, well then, they are brilliant. It is clear to me that the Jihadis piggy-back on leftist causes, one of those being the hatred of "Dead White Men" and white hegemony in general. The Jihadis are smart enough in my opinion, to use hatred of whites as a way of rallying the third world against America and the Western world.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 10:56:00 pm
I think they often exploit the naivety of the left, so piggy back, maybe thats a fair comment. I think the third world is being carved up as we speak between China, Islam and smaller regional interests. In so far as hatred for 'Dead White Men', Shakespeare is as important as Equiano for me. The Jihadi, I think, will use any tool that presents itself. I'm not in this to support White Hegemony, I am in this to support Hegemony of the free...if you will.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:19:00 pm
I'm with you there.
Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:39:00 pm
Pastorius,
IMO, jihadis are smart--at least, their leaders are.
I'm not sure they have engineered the situation, but I am sure they will take advantage of the strife and turn it to their advantage. In fact, I think that some counter-jihadists have jumped on board the ethnocentric bandwagon just to avoid "losing."
Note: This is not to say that we should shut up and go along with the trend of ethnocentric nationalism as the means to combat Islamification. NOT AT ALL!
Monday, May 19, 2008 12:35:00 am
Yeah, I understand. Because, that would do exactly what Watcher said, it would divide us.
Monday, May 19, 2008 1:10:00 am
Sadly, we are divided, because many of our brothers have gone the wrong way.
Monday, May 19, 2008 1:10:00 am
Understand that when I say engineered I'm not suggesting they are like some 'Illuminati'. I mean as Aow interpreted, that where there is tension the exploit it. You have to remember that with my complexion they often view me as a potential convert, presuming that experiences of racism in the UK will have made me hate the British state etc. When I have conversations with them they keep saying 'we use their rules against them'...I was having a debate with this one guy, a builder and on the surface quite western. The conversation turned to Iraq and then Palestine. Eventually I said 'well here you have freedom and can worship how you please, that is the benefit of our liberal society' he replied 'yes and we shall use that liberal freedom to work against them'. When we talk they often assume that I will be against the 'man' and supportive of them. It is clear to me that Islam works like a virus, infiltrating and then exploiting any weakness they find. It's no coincidence they recruit so many converts in prison...Their lobby groups make provocative demands on a state that strives to be tolerant, using freedom of speech to announce 'Freedom of speech go to hell!....Behead those who insult Islam!'..ETC or demanding Islamic only swimming times in pools, or how about the recognition and adoption of Sharia law by the British police and courts (allowing them to enforce and practice sharia within their community, free from interference from the police or judiciary)..in doing so attempting to trigger a reaction. These are not random unconnected Islamic stupidity but are an attempt to create an atmosphere of hostility and tension. Social engineering at the grass roots level. So yes they are the ultimate opportunists...who take orders from their clerics, who take orders from Saudi Arabia.
Monday, May 19, 2008 1:46:00 am
Well, just remember, if you ever feel like becoming a blogger, you are invited here. You have some great stories and perspectives.
Monday, May 19, 2008 2:09:00 am