This sounds like something that might get a fatwa. Although the story doesn't specifically say, he was killed because of people following the teachings of Islam, it could be interpreted that way. It sounds like they killed him for not believing in their religion. It makes it sound like that the people of the town only appreciated the beautiful thing he was doing because they thought that he was doing it in the name of Allah, and when they found out that he didn't even know about their god, they hated him. In fact the people of the town realizing that he is not a Muslim, leads to his death! This story does nothing to make Islam look good.
It is well written by the way. When was this story written, out of curiosity?
I feel bad that its writer was in anyway associated with pedophilia. If he was just a liberal, it wouldn't bother me so much.
Damien, Though I don't think he ever expressed his political opinions, I am quite convinced he was, indeed, a Liberal. He was friends with the beatnik writers William Burroughgs and Allen Ginsberg.
Burroughs was known to like "young men", and Allen Ginsberg was a member of NAMBLA (the North American Man-Boy Love Association).
I quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg
Association with NAMBLA Ginsberg also spoke out in defense of the freedom of expression of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).[23] In "Thoughts on NAMBLA", a 1994 essay published in the collection Deliberate Prose, Ginsberg stated, "I joined NAMBLA in defense of free speech." In the essay, he referred to NAMBLA "as a forum for reform of those laws on youthful sexuality which members deem oppressive, a discussion society not a sex club." Ginsberg expressed the opinion that the appreciation of youthful bodies and "the human form divine" has been a common theme throughout the history of culture, "from Rome's Vatican to Florence's Uffizi galleries to New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art", and that laws regarding the issue needed to be more openly discussed. In an interview for the Harvard Gay and Lesbian Review he said: "Everybody likes little kids. All you've got to do is walk through the Vatican and see all the little statues of little prepubescents, pubescents and postpubescents. Naked kids have been a staple of delight for centuries, for both parents and onlookers."
By the way, just for the record, this is the second time I have posted this here at IBA, and I want to include the comments thread from the first time I posted it. I think you will find it interesting:
USpace said... Good story, it subtly makes it clear that these people were living in a mostly barbaric and theocratic totalitarian culture, which in the end produces nothing but desert.
Maybe Libs see it in a different way.
But I feel that if enough Libs read stuff like this it may change some minds about the falsity of multiculturalism.
absurd thought - God of the Universe loves multiculturalism... .
Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:41:00 PM
Pastorius said... It is a good story, isn't it?
You gotta give Bowles credit where credit is due. He was a very, very good writer.
I agree with you assessment of the story. But, I would add that I believe the story shows that the culture of the people, around whom Bowles lived, is barbarous and anti-freedom.
Hmm. What do you know? They just happened to be Islamic.
Many of Bowles stories are like this, and yet, for some reason, Libs read this stuff, and find it charming.
More: Epaminondas said... I could never on my best day dream up such a plot idea, frame like like an Aesop, and write it so well.
It's bitter condemnation is simply RINGING.
Tribal suspicion and greed, championing a wife's 'love' (who knows how they came to be together), create a man unaware of something greater than himself, whose making of something from nothing, stands in that milieu, for the arrogance of free will against a sovereign and angry spirit, whose followers can imagine no tolerance, and cannot even imagine what has been lost, and what can never be.
Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:41:00 PM
Pastorius said... Very well put, Epa. You see what I see.
Paul Bowles is a testament against Islam, as far as I am concerned.
You really ought to read two of his other short stories;
1) The Delicate Prey
2) Tapiama
The book, The Sheltering Sky, is amazing as well, and stands as yet another impeccable critique of Moroccan/Islamic culture.
Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:52:00 PM
Anonymous said... The writer was not really a close friend of Allen Ginsberg, and in no way supported pedophilia. These ramblings about this fine writer are off-the-mark.
And, what do you think of the story Pages From Cold Point?
And, what do you think of the fact that one of the most famous portraits of Paul Bowles, which graced the cover of his short story collection A Distant Episode, was taken by Allen Ginsberg in Morocco?
I praised Bowles writing, as I would also praise the great writing of Thomas Mann, or Oscar Wilde.
But, would you care to explain the story Death in Venice to me, my friend?
Why don't you get specific in your criticism of me, instead of simply denying things?
Sunday, August 19, 2007 5:16:00 PM
Baron Bodissey said... Pastorius,
I see what you mean about this story.
As a matter of interest, on a somewhat related topic -- rumor has it that the science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke moved to Sri Lanka so that he could indulge a simila... ahem.. taste. I don't know if it's true, but that's the rumor.
Monday, August 20, 2007 4:51:00 AM
Pastorius said... Baron, Yes, I have read the same thing about Arthur C. Clarke. There are many references to it on Google.
I am eagerly waiting that Mr. Anonymous to respond to my request that he be more specific in his criticisms.
Monday, August 20, 2007 5:51:00 AM
Epaminondas said... Aside from being dead, whether or not these rumours are true, how in god''s name could one defend one's self from such things?
I always wondered what Clark saw in Sri Lanka, but then, quiet tropics, warm ocean, and $$ that goes an awful long way....I mean I moved 600 miles north of NYC where I was born and the entire epaminondas' clan remains and I'm not even retired. Folks in my family thinks I prefer the company of moose and that I have brainwashed the wife.
If I did something notable will there be google rumours of me and a moose?
As a matter of interest, on a somewhat related topic -- rumor has it that the science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke moved to Sri Lanka so that he could indulge a simila... ahem.. taste. I don't know if it's true, but that's the rumor.
Monday, August 20, 2007 4:51:00 AM
Pastorius said... Baron, Yes, I have read the same thing about Arthur C. Clarke. There are many references to it on Google.
I am eagerly waiting that Mr. Anonymous to respond to my request that he be more specific in his criticisms.
Monday, August 20, 2007 5:51:00 AM
Epaminondas said... Aside from being dead, whether or not these rumours are true, how in god''s name could one defend one's self from such things?
I always wondered what Clark saw in Sri Lanka, but then, quiet tropics, warm ocean, and $$ that goes an awful long way....I mean I moved 600 miles north of NYC where I was born and the entire epaminondas' clan remains and I'm not even retired. Folks in my family thinks I prefer the company of moose and that I have brainwashed the wife.
If I did something notable will there be google rumours of me and a moose?
Pastorius said... Well Epa, long have I suspected you and the mooses, or it is meese?
:)
But seriously, are you saying I am carelessly casting aspersions here?
I respect your opinion.
Monday, August 20, 2007 2:30:00 PM
Anonymous said... Even if the cover photo was made by Ginsberg, and the author wrote Pages from Cold Point, it still does not infer in any way that the man condoned such behavior, and he moved to the city on the strait not because of sex but because it was cheap. Ginsberg was never a close friend. I'm afraid that this is an example of a smear after one's death, and based on opinions, not facts, and you need to do your research before making such ridiculous claims.
Monday, August 20, 2007 4:32:00 PM
Pastorius said... Hi Anonymous, I did not really make a "claim." I said,
Paul Bowles was a real freak, in my opinion.
...
Some of his stories seemed to express sympathy for pedophilia. He was good friends with Allen Ginsberg who was a supporter of the North American Man-Boy Love Association.
Anyway, Bowles ended up moving to Tangier, Morocco, which has a reputation as "The City of Pedophilia."
You get the picture.
So anyway, though Bowles was a freak, he was an aesthetically brilliant writer. I, myself, write fiction, so I study all the great writers I can find. Bowles came highly recommended to me by a man I admire, so I began to read him, and, well yes, he is a great writer. He wrote a book called The Sheltering Sky, which is brilliant, and was made into a movie by the legendary director Bernardo Bertolucci."
Let us be clear, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Bowles writing.
I do question his morality. He was friends with Ginsberg, and William Burroughs as well. Mow, here's a review of a film about Bowles called "Let It All Come Down":
"Best known for his first novel, The Sheltering Sky, the taciturn Paul Bowles is shown in this beautiful and delicately produced film as a Renaissance man of remarkable talent and scope. Bowles – now in his mid-eighties – waxes reflective, but not sentimental, about his life, his famous cohorts (like Gertrude Stein, William S. Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg and Tennessee Williams), his sexless marriage to the lesbian writer Jane Bowles and being an expatriate in Paris and Tangiers. His friends also reflect on him with a polite but biting candor about the personal and professional legend and man. With opulent shots of Tangiers today and clippings from early Paris and photos of his life, it is less the tale of one man but a documentary of an era, with all the dirty little secrets about him and his friends. Bowles left home at an early age and embarked on a brilliant career as a composer. After a stint in Paris and the Left Bank scene, he eventually left for Tangiers. In Morocco, Bowles found the paradise he searched for, gave up music, and began to write and invited his friends to visit. For a few years Tangiers was the Paris of Africa in literary talent, but as the Beats headed back north, Bowles stayed. In one remarkable interview shot in 1995, Ginsberg, Burroughs and Bowles are reunited at the Mayfair Hotel in New York, and in a summit of mental giants, they chat about writing and the early days, the drugs they took and the men they loved. "
Let me be clear, I have no problem with gay people. I do oppose pedophilia.
I guess you could say I am casting aspersions, but I certainly am not making a claim. And, in my opinion, he was a real freak.
Now, I am going to try to get a friend of mine, who knew William Burroughs personally, to come over here and tell you a little bit about that man.
Epaminondas said... No, I'm not saying that..but to the avg person, if they read that A. Clarke moved to Sri Lanka not to enjoy some kind of retirement and watch maidens prancing about in tropical wear, but because he has other enjoyments in mind, not so savory ... there is really no way to determine if such a rumour is correct.
Problem of the internet. We have a nearly infinite amount of info and it's not all going to be on snopes. (asumming THEY are correct)
Monday, August 20, 2007 5:26:00 PM
Anonymous said... OK, I'm here, Jaco. Yes, I lived in Lawrence, Kansas at the same time as Burroughs was there living his final years, as well as when he died there. Burroughs had two residences in Lawrence, one in town, one out at Lone Star Lake (more conducive to his "shotgun art" projects). He also still was spending part of the year in Morocco still, well up to the end, and I suppose only people there as well as his manager and heir know the truth of what happened there.
I did know this manager/heir as a regular on the nightlife scene however, though I generally kept my distance. He's a nice guy so far as I know, but it was well known (and easily observed by myself and others) that he would come to the bars to meet up with the youngest looking guys there (I doubt if any of these were minors though many were not of legal age to be in bars in America). They'd meet, chat up, Mr. "G" would buy plenty of drinks, and then off they'd go back to private parties with Burroughs.
Later, younger guys I knew (who were also gay) told me of being exceedingly creeped out by this whole routine and would warn friends about it all. Hell, some guys were probably thrilled to get to go meet Burroughs. I also know LOTS of straight guys who were also just friends with Burroughs and his manager as fellow artists, writers, and on occasion having met Burroughs at the local methodone clinic. Nothing was ever tried on them, but they never said that getting the youngest looking guys to Old Bill was NOT the goal of the scouting expeditions to bars.
Burroughs left most of his guns to friends like these, among other personal items. I've handled some myself. I can find out more, but I'm pretty sure that these friends weren't ever around when the partying was going on, and I'm not sure if either I or they really want to know everything. Personally I never went out there (to the lake house) because I frankly just didn't want to get shot accidentally, though I met the man in town a few times, which was very rare, he wasn't in town much. My younger gay friends did stay very clear though, I can tell you that much.
Pastorius said... Are you willing to cop to who you are on the internet?
You are, after all, one of the most visible of all bloggers in this movement.
Monday, August 20, 2007 7:34:00 PM
USpace said... Definitely a good story!
"Libs read this stuff, and find it charming."
Maybe it's because deep deep down, the Libs really want to know the truth. Even if they won't even admit it to themselves when they see it. The seed of truth has still been planted, hopefully it will grow...
absurd thought - God of the Universe says deny seeing the truth... .
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 5:13:00 AM
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:52:00 am
Anonymous said...
It's a pretty good story.
It would have been even better if it had concluded with Joe and Carson rappelling down from the Team America chopper while delivering some heavy machine gun justice into that debased homicidal mob, but then I generally like stories with nice endings.
I am not sure about the multicultural angle at all. If anything, the story reads like a tale from the 1000 and one nights. That is how I took it, and within its context, it was true to seeing an Islamic culture for what it is. Multiculturalists whitewash all the evils of favored cultures, and then berate our lying eyes for seeing the truths that we see.
Jau Jau, The story has the ring of truth. It is only "multicultural" in the context of the Liberals who appreciate Bowles stories as enchanting and charming stories of faraway places.
If you peel away all our multicultural shrapnel, the story is frightening to the point of ... well, hell.
I thought it was great. It captured the groupthink, the distrust, the abdication of individual initiative/responsibility, the importance of one's appearance to the mob ('honor') to the exclusion of any concept of the individual, the superstition, the regression, the rampaging mobs, and the interpersonal and purely materialistic dynamic between john and whore(s) that characterizes all Mohammedan societies, not to mention one of the uglier bits of Sharia - execution for apostacy - and it did so in a tasteful, appealing way.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:45:00 am
Anonymous said...
Pastorius, you said You can see why he is one of my favorite writers.
Can you tell other favourite writers of yours? Thanks.
William Wordsworth (a great name for a writer) Herman Melville William Shakespeare Henry Miller Hunter S. Thompson Ernest Hemingway Friedrich Nietzsche Wallace Stevens Isaac Bashevis Singer Harold Brodkey Jorge Luis Borges
You can see what my tastes and interests are here:
Anonymous, YOu asked: Can you tell me what you consider the essential books to read?
I say: If you mean what are the essential books to read by Paul Bowles I'd say get a collection of his short stories, particularly, The Delicate Prey. And, read The Sheltering Sky, which is considered his masterpiece.
Honestly, I have not read his other books, for instance, Let It All Come Down.
I think I will read those books eventually.
If you're talking about what books to read in general, I could give suggestions, but instead I would point you to a book called The Western Canon by Harold Bloom. I'd say, skim that book, as it is a series of notes on the great books of Western culture, and then read the books that appeal to you.
And, by the way, I'm certainly no expert, though I play one on this blog.
:)
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:47:00 am
Anonymous said...
Pastorius thanks for both your answers. I was thinking in books to read in general but after reading this great short story by Paul Bowles that you post here, I´m curious to read more of his work and I appreciate the tip very much.
You said, And, by the way, I'm certainly no expert, though I play one on this blog.
Pastorius I like much of what I read on this blog, I think it´s good ;)
I´m European and love reading what you post here about your founding fathers. Great stuff :)
Anonymous, Thanks for the kind word. That is very encouraging.
I appreciate it very much.
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:35:00 pm
[Image] Paul Bowles pictured here in a photograph by Allen Ginsberg
Paul Bowles was a real freak, in my opinion.
He wrote stories from a perspective that Liberals love. Some of his stories dealt with, or hinted at, pedophilia. He was also good friends with Allen Ginsberg who was a supporter of the North American Man-Boy Love Association.
Anyway, Bowles ended up moving to Tangier, Morocco, which has a reputation as "The City of Pedophilia."
You get the picture.
So anyway, though Bowles was a freak, he was an aesthetically brilliant writer. I, myself, write fiction, so I study all the great writers I can find. Bowles came highly recommended to me by a man I admire, so I began to read him, and, well yes, he is a great writer. He wrote a book called The Sheltering Sky, which is brilliant, and was made into a movie by the legendary director Bernardo Bertolucci.
Now, here's the thing, as I said, Liberals love Paul Bowles. Here's the kind of stuff they say about Bowles:
Bowles is one of the first western writers of fiction that treats Islam equally to European society. Islam is not merely a backdrop in which his characters find fault or get ground up in (i.e., you never get the sense that Bowles is blaming the cultures themselves for the destruction of his characters, typically they are responsible, but it really isn't anybody's 'fault' per se). This is multicultural literature at its best ... I'm sure you see where I'm going.
:)
Anyway, I would like you to read the following story by Paul Bowles. It is called The Garden. You tell me, does this story demonstrate multiculturalism at its best?
A man who lived in a distant town in the southern country was working in his garden. Because he was poor his land was at the edge of the oasis. All in the afternoon he dug channels, and when the day was finished he went to the upper end of the garden and opened the gate that held back the water. And now the water ran in the channels to the beds of barley and the young pomegranate trees. The sky was red, and when the man saw the floor of his garden shining like jewels, he sat down on a stone to look at it. As he watched it, it grew brighter, and he thought: "There is no finer garden in the oasis."
A great happiness filled him, and he sat there a long time, and did not get home until very late. When he went into the house, his wife looked at him and saw the joy still in his eyes.
"He has found a treasure," she thought; but she said nothing.
When they sat face to face at the evening meal, the man was still remembering his garden, and it seemed to him now that he had known the happiness, never again would he be without it.
He was silent as he ate.
His wife too was silent. "He is thinking of the treasure," she said to herself. And she was angry, believing that he did not want to share his secret with her. The next morning she went to the house of an old woman and bought many herbs and powders from her. She took them home and passed several days mixing and cooking them, until she had made the medicine she wanted. Then at each meal she began to ut a little of the tseubeur into her husband's food.
It was not long before the man fell ill. For a time he went each day to his garden to work, but often when he got there, he was so weak that he could merely sit leaning against a palm tree. He had a sharp sound in his ears, and he could not follow his thoughts as they came to him. In spite of this, each day when the sun went down and he saw his garden shining red in its light, he was happy. And when he got home at night his wife could see that there was joy in his eyes.
"He has been counting the treasure," she thought, and she began to go secretly to the garden to watch him from behind the trees. When she saw that merely sat looking at the ground, she went back to the old woman and told her about it.
"You must hurry and make him talk, before he forgets where he has hidden the treasure," said the old woman.
That night the wife put a great amount of tseubeur into his food, and when they were drinking tea afterward she began to say sweet words to him. The man only smiled. She tried for a long time to make him speak, but he merely shrugged his shoulders and made motions with his hands.
The next morning while he was still asleep, she went back to the old woman and told her that the man could no longer speak.
"You have given him too much," the old woman said. "He will never tell you his secret now. The only thing for you to do is to go away quickly, before he dies."
The woman ran home. Her husband lay on the mat with his mouth open. She packed her clothing, and left the town that mornng.
For three days the man lay in a deep sleep. The fourth day when he awoke, it was as if he made a voyage to the other side of the world. He was very hungry, but all he could find in the house was a piece of dry bread. When he had eaten that, he walked to his garden at the edge of the oasis and picked many figs. Then he sat down and ate them. In his mind there was no thught of his wife, because he had forgotten her. When a neighbor came by and called to him, he answered politely, as if speaking to a stranger, and the neighbor went away perplexed.
Little by little the man grew healthy once more. He worked each day in the garden. When dusk came, after watching the sunset and the red water, he would go home and cook his dinner and sleep. He had no friends, because although men spoke to him, he did not know who they were, and he only smiled and nodded to them. Then the people in the town began to notice that he no longer went to the mosque to pray. They spoke about him among themselves, and one evening the imam went to the man's house to talk with him.
As they sat there, the Imam listened for sound of the man's wife in the house. Out of courtesy he could not mention her, but he was thinking about her and asking himself where she might be. He went away from the house full of doubts. The man went on living his life. But the people of the town now talked of little else. They whispiered that he had killled his wife, and many of them wanted to go together and search the house for her remains. The imam spoke against this idea, saying that he would go and talk again with the man. And this timehe went all the way to the garden at the edge of the oasis, and found him there working happily with the plants and the trees. He watched him for a while, and then he walked closer and spoke a few words with him. It was late in the afternoon. The sun was sinking in the west, and the water on the ground began to be red. Presently the man said to the Imam: "The garden is beautiful." "Beautiful or not beautiful," said the Imam, "you should be giving thanks to Allah for allowing you to have it." "Allah?" said the man. "Who is that? I have never heard of him. I made this garden myself. I dug every channel and planted every tree, and no one helped me. I have no debts to anyone." The Imam had turned pale. He flung out his arm and struck the man very hard in the face. Then he went quickly out of the garden. The man stood with his hand to his cheek. "He has gone mad," he thought, as the Imam walked away. That night the people spoke together in the Mosque. They decided that the man could no longer live in their town. Early the next morning a great crowd of men, with the Imam going at the head of it, went out into the oasis, on its way to the man's garden. The small boys ran ahead oof the men, and got there long before them. They hid in the bushes, and as the man worked they began to throw stones and shout insults at him. He paid no attention to them. Then a stone hit him in the back of his head and he jumped up quickly. As they ran away, one of them fell, and the man caught him. He tried to hold him still so he could ask him: "Why are you throwing stones at me?" But the boy only screamed and struggled. And the townspeople, who were on their way, heard the screaming, and they came running to the garden. They pulled the boy away from him and began to strike the man with hoes and sickles. When they had destroyed him, they left him there with his head lying in one of the channels, and went back to the town, giving thanks to Allah that the boy was safe. Little by little the trees died, and very soon the garden was gone. Only the desert was there. --- Paul Bowles
26 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment formMulticulturalism at its best? Hogwash!
It's only because liberals allow themselves to see muslims through granules of sand, that they can see multiculturalism at its best.
I'm pretty sure if a white anglo saxon group had been the murderers, they would see it much differently.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 1:36:00 am
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Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:22:00 am
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Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:24:00 am
Pastorius,
This sounds like something that might get a fatwa. Although the story doesn't specifically say, he was killed because of people following the teachings of Islam, it could be interpreted that way. It sounds like they killed him for not believing in their religion. It makes it sound like that the people of the town only appreciated the beautiful thing he was doing because they thought that he was doing it in the name of Allah, and when they found out that he didn't even know about their god, they hated him. In fact the people of the town realizing that he is not a Muslim, leads to his death! This story does nothing to make Islam look good.
It is well written by the way. When was this story written, out of curiosity?
I feel bad that its writer was in anyway associated with pedophilia. If he was just a liberal, it wouldn't bother me so much.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:36:00 am
Damien,
Though I don't think he ever expressed his political opinions, I am quite convinced he was, indeed, a Liberal. He was friends with the beatnik writers William Burroughgs and Allen Ginsberg.
Burroughs was known to like "young men", and Allen Ginsberg was a member of NAMBLA (the North American Man-Boy Love Association).
I quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg
Association with NAMBLA
Ginsberg also spoke out in defense of the freedom of expression of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).[23] In "Thoughts on NAMBLA", a 1994 essay published in the collection Deliberate Prose, Ginsberg stated, "I joined NAMBLA in defense of free speech." In the essay, he referred to NAMBLA "as a forum for reform of those laws on youthful sexuality which members deem oppressive, a discussion society not a sex club." Ginsberg expressed the opinion that the appreciation of youthful bodies and "the human form divine" has been a common theme throughout the history of culture, "from Rome's Vatican to Florence's Uffizi galleries to New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art", and that laws regarding the issue needed to be more openly discussed. In an interview for the Harvard Gay and Lesbian Review he said:
"Everybody likes little kids. All you've got to do is walk through the Vatican and see all the little statues of little prepubescents, pubescents and postpubescents. Naked kids have been a staple of delight for centuries, for both parents and onlookers."
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:43:00 am
It is, however, a very well-written piece of work. You can see why he is one of my favorite writers.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:44:00 am
By the way, just for the record, this is the second time I have posted this here at IBA, and I want to include the comments thread from the first time I posted it. I think you will find it interesting:
USpace said...
Good story, it subtly makes it clear that these people were living in a mostly barbaric and theocratic totalitarian culture, which in the end produces nothing but desert.
Maybe Libs see it in a different way.
But I feel that if enough Libs read stuff like this it may change some minds about the falsity of multiculturalism.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe loves
multiculturalism...
.
Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:41:00 PM
Pastorius said...
It is a good story, isn't it?
You gotta give Bowles credit where credit is due. He was a very, very good writer.
I agree with you assessment of the story. But, I would add that I believe the story shows that the culture of the people, around whom Bowles lived, is barbarous and anti-freedom.
Hmm. What do you know? They just happened to be Islamic.
Many of Bowles stories are like this, and yet, for some reason, Libs read this stuff, and find it charming.
I don't get it.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:47:00 am
More: Epaminondas said...
I could never on my best day dream up such a plot idea, frame like like an Aesop, and write it so well.
It's bitter condemnation is simply RINGING.
Tribal suspicion and greed, championing a wife's 'love' (who knows how they came to be together), create a man unaware of something greater than himself, whose making of something from nothing, stands in that milieu, for the arrogance of free will against a sovereign and angry spirit, whose followers can imagine no tolerance, and cannot even imagine what has been lost, and what can never be.
Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:41:00 PM
Pastorius said...
Very well put, Epa. You see what I see.
Paul Bowles is a testament against Islam, as far as I am concerned.
You really ought to read two of his other short stories;
1) The Delicate Prey
2) Tapiama
The book, The Sheltering Sky, is amazing as well, and stands as yet another impeccable critique of Moroccan/Islamic culture.
Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:52:00 PM
Anonymous said...
The writer was not really a close friend of Allen Ginsberg, and in no way supported pedophilia. These ramblings about this fine writer are off-the-mark.
Sunday, August 19, 2007 4:57:00 PM
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:49:00 am
More:
Pastorius said...
Oh, really?
And, what do you think of the story Pages From Cold Point?
And, what do you think of the fact that one of the most famous portraits of Paul Bowles, which graced the cover of his short story collection A Distant Episode, was taken by Allen Ginsberg in Morocco?
I praised Bowles writing, as I would also praise the great writing of Thomas Mann, or Oscar Wilde.
But, would you care to explain the story Death in Venice to me, my friend?
Why don't you get specific in your criticism of me, instead of simply denying things?
Sunday, August 19, 2007 5:16:00 PM
Baron Bodissey said...
Pastorius,
I see what you mean about this story.
As a matter of interest, on a somewhat related topic -- rumor has it that the science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke moved to Sri Lanka so that he could indulge a simila... ahem.. taste. I don't know if it's true, but that's the rumor.
Monday, August 20, 2007 4:51:00 AM
Pastorius said...
Baron,
Yes, I have read the same thing about Arthur C. Clarke. There are many references to it on Google.
I am eagerly waiting that Mr. Anonymous to respond to my request that he be more specific in his criticisms.
Monday, August 20, 2007 5:51:00 AM
Epaminondas said...
Aside from being dead, whether or not these rumours are true, how in god''s name could one defend one's self from such things?
I always wondered what Clark saw in Sri Lanka, but then, quiet tropics, warm ocean, and $$ that goes an awful long way....I mean I moved 600 miles north of NYC where I was born and the entire epaminondas' clan remains and I'm not even retired. Folks in my family thinks I prefer the company of moose and that I have brainwashed the wife.
If I did something notable will there be google rumours of me and a moose?
Monday, August 20, 2007 11:16:00 AM
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:50:00 am
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Baron Bodissey said...
Pastorius,
I see what you mean about this story.
As a matter of interest, on a somewhat related topic -- rumor has it that the science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke moved to Sri Lanka so that he could indulge a simila... ahem.. taste. I don't know if it's true, but that's the rumor.
Monday, August 20, 2007 4:51:00 AM
Pastorius said...
Baron,
Yes, I have read the same thing about Arthur C. Clarke. There are many references to it on Google.
I am eagerly waiting that Mr. Anonymous to respond to my request that he be more specific in his criticisms.
Monday, August 20, 2007 5:51:00 AM
Epaminondas said...
Aside from being dead, whether or not these rumours are true, how in god''s name could one defend one's self from such things?
I always wondered what Clark saw in Sri Lanka, but then, quiet tropics, warm ocean, and $$ that goes an awful long way....I mean I moved 600 miles north of NYC where I was born and the entire epaminondas' clan remains and I'm not even retired. Folks in my family thinks I prefer the company of moose and that I have brainwashed the wife.
If I did something notable will there be google rumours of me and a moose?
Monday, August 20, 2007 11:16:00 AM
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:50:00 am
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Pastorius said...
Well Epa, long have I suspected you and the mooses, or it is meese?
:)
But seriously, are you saying I am carelessly casting aspersions here?
I respect your opinion.
Monday, August 20, 2007 2:30:00 PM
Anonymous said...
Even if the cover photo was made by Ginsberg, and the author wrote Pages from Cold Point, it still does not infer in any way that the man condoned such behavior, and he moved to the city on the strait not because of sex but because it was cheap. Ginsberg was never a close friend. I'm afraid that this is an example of a smear after one's death, and based on opinions, not facts, and you need to do your research before making such ridiculous claims.
Monday, August 20, 2007 4:32:00 PM
Pastorius said...
Hi Anonymous,
I did not really make a "claim." I said,
Paul Bowles was a real freak, in my opinion.
...
Some of his stories seemed to express sympathy for pedophilia. He was good friends with Allen Ginsberg who was a supporter of the North American Man-Boy Love Association.
Anyway, Bowles ended up moving to Tangier, Morocco, which has a reputation as "The City of Pedophilia."
You get the picture.
So anyway, though Bowles was a freak, he was an aesthetically brilliant writer. I, myself, write fiction, so I study all the great writers I can find. Bowles came highly recommended to me by a man I admire, so I began to read him, and, well yes, he is a great writer. He wrote a book called The Sheltering Sky, which is brilliant, and was made into a movie by the legendary director Bernardo Bertolucci."
Let us be clear, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Bowles writing.
I do question his morality. He was friends with Ginsberg, and William Burroughs as well. Mow, here's a review of a film about Bowles called "Let It All Come Down":
"Best known for his first novel, The Sheltering Sky, the taciturn Paul Bowles is shown in this beautiful and delicately produced film as a Renaissance man of remarkable talent and scope. Bowles – now in his mid-eighties – waxes reflective, but not sentimental, about his life, his famous cohorts (like Gertrude Stein, William S. Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg and Tennessee Williams), his sexless marriage to the lesbian writer Jane Bowles and being an expatriate in Paris and Tangiers. His friends also reflect on him with a polite but biting candor about the personal and professional legend and man. With opulent shots of Tangiers today and clippings from early Paris and photos of his life, it is less the tale of one man but a documentary of an era, with all the dirty little secrets about him and his friends. Bowles left home at an early age and embarked on a brilliant career as a composer. After a stint in Paris and the Left Bank scene, he eventually left for Tangiers. In Morocco, Bowles found the paradise he searched for, gave up music, and began to write and invited his friends to visit. For a few years Tangiers was the Paris of Africa in literary talent, but as the Beats headed back north, Bowles stayed. In one remarkable interview shot in 1995, Ginsberg, Burroughs and Bowles are reunited at the Mayfair Hotel in New York, and in a summit of mental giants, they chat about writing and the early days, the drugs they took and the men they loved. "
Let me be clear, I have no problem with gay people. I do oppose pedophilia.
I guess you could say I am casting aspersions, but I certainly am not making a claim. And, in my opinion, he was a real freak.
Now, I am going to try to get a friend of mine, who knew William Burroughs personally, to come over here and tell you a little bit about that man.
I hope to see you again.
Monday, August 20, 2007 4:53:00 PM
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:51:00 am
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Epaminondas said...
No, I'm not saying that..but to the avg person, if they read that A. Clarke moved to Sri Lanka not to enjoy some kind of retirement and watch maidens prancing about in tropical wear, but because he has other enjoyments in mind, not so savory ... there is really no way to determine if such a rumour is correct.
Problem of the internet. We have a nearly infinite amount of info and it's not all going to be on snopes. (asumming THEY are correct)
Monday, August 20, 2007 5:26:00 PM
Anonymous said...
OK, I'm here, Jaco. Yes, I lived in Lawrence, Kansas at the same time as Burroughs was there living his final years, as well as when he died there. Burroughs had two residences in Lawrence, one in town, one out at Lone Star Lake (more conducive to his "shotgun art" projects). He also still was spending part of the year in Morocco still, well up to the end, and I suppose only people there as well as his manager and heir know the truth of what happened there.
I did know this manager/heir as a regular on the nightlife scene however, though I generally kept my distance. He's a nice guy so far as I know, but it was well known (and easily observed by myself and others) that he would come to the bars to meet up with the youngest looking guys there (I doubt if any of these were minors though many were not of legal age to be in bars in America). They'd meet, chat up, Mr. "G" would buy plenty of drinks, and then off they'd go back to private parties with Burroughs.
Later, younger guys I knew (who were also gay) told me of being exceedingly creeped out by this whole routine and would warn friends about it all. Hell, some guys were probably thrilled to get to go meet Burroughs. I also know LOTS of straight guys who were also just friends with Burroughs and his manager as fellow artists, writers, and on occasion having met Burroughs at the local methodone clinic. Nothing was ever tried on them, but they never said that getting the youngest looking guys to Old Bill was NOT the goal of the scouting expeditions to bars.
Burroughs left most of his guns to friends like these, among other personal items. I've handled some myself. I can find out more, but I'm pretty sure that these friends weren't ever around when the partying was going on, and I'm not sure if either I or they really want to know everything. Personally I never went out there (to the lake house) because I frankly just didn't want to get shot accidentally, though I met the man in town a few times, which was very rare, he wasn't in town much. My younger gay friends did stay very clear though, I can tell you that much.
Monday, August 20, 2007 7:21:00 PM
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:52:00 am
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Pastorius said...
Are you willing to cop to who you are on the internet?
You are, after all, one of the most visible of all bloggers in this movement.
Monday, August 20, 2007 7:34:00 PM
USpace said...
Definitely a good story!
"Libs read this stuff, and find it charming."
Maybe it's because deep deep down, the Libs really want to know the truth. Even if they won't even admit it to themselves when they see it. The seed of truth has still been planted, hopefully it will grow...
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
deny seeing the truth...
.
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 5:13:00 AM
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 2:52:00 am
It's a pretty good story.
It would have been even better if it had concluded with Joe and Carson rappelling down from the Team America chopper while delivering some heavy machine gun justice into that debased homicidal mob, but then I generally like stories with nice endings.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:11:00 am
LOL
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:26:00 am
I am not sure about the multicultural angle at all. If anything, the story reads like a tale from the 1000 and one nights. That is how I took it, and within its context, it was true to seeing an Islamic culture for what it is. Multiculturalists whitewash all the evils of favored cultures, and then berate our lying eyes for seeing the truths that we see.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:11:00 am
Jau Jau,
The story has the ring of truth. It is only "multicultural" in the context of the Liberals who appreciate Bowles stories as enchanting and charming stories of faraway places.
If you peel away all our multicultural shrapnel, the story is frightening to the point of ... well, hell.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:15:00 am
Solid writing with a message (not homosexual) that I think we can all identify with. The nature of man, exposed.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:41:00 am
I'm glad to see everyone is appreciating the aesthetic quality of Bowles writing as much as I do.
And, of course, the message is right on point for this blog.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 4:46:00 am
I thought it was great. It captured the groupthink, the distrust, the abdication of individual initiative/responsibility, the importance of one's appearance to the mob ('honor') to the exclusion of any concept of the individual, the superstition, the regression, the rampaging mobs, and the interpersonal and purely materialistic dynamic between john and whore(s) that characterizes all Mohammedan societies, not to mention one of the uglier bits of Sharia - execution for apostacy - and it did so in a tasteful, appealing way.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:45:00 am
Pastorius, you said
You can see why he is one of my favorite writers.
Can you tell other favourite writers of yours? Thanks.
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:38:00 am
Let's see ...
My other favorite writers include
William Wordsworth (a great name for a writer)
Herman Melville
William Shakespeare
Henry Miller
Hunter S. Thompson
Ernest Hemingway
Friedrich Nietzsche
Wallace Stevens
Isaac Bashevis Singer
Harold Brodkey
Jorge Luis Borges
You can see what my tastes and interests are here:
http://www.blogger.com/profile/03169561459129778670
Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:41:00 pm
Pastorius thanks.
Sudent here. Can you tell me what you consider the essential books to read? Thanks.
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:23:00 am
Anonymous,
YOu asked: Can you tell me what you consider the essential books to read?
I say: If you mean what are the essential books to read by Paul Bowles I'd say get a collection of his short stories, particularly, The Delicate Prey. And, read The Sheltering Sky, which is considered his masterpiece.
Honestly, I have not read his other books, for instance, Let It All Come Down.
I think I will read those books eventually.
If you're talking about what books to read in general, I could give suggestions, but instead I would point you to a book called The Western Canon by Harold Bloom. I'd say, skim that book, as it is a series of notes on the great books of Western culture, and then read the books that appeal to you.
And, by the way, I'm certainly no expert, though I play one on this blog.
:)
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:47:00 am
Pastorius thanks for both your answers. I was thinking in books to read in general but after reading this great short story by Paul Bowles that you post here, I´m curious to read more of his work and I appreciate the tip very much.
You said,
And, by the way, I'm certainly no expert, though I play one on this blog.
Pastorius I like much of what I read on this blog, I think it´s good ;)
I´m European and love reading what you post here about your founding fathers. Great stuff :)
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 6:53:00 pm
Anonymous,
Thanks for the kind word. That is very encouraging.
I appreciate it very much.
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:35:00 pm