Just a guess here: I think that Breivik's use of steroids exacerbated his underlying sociopathy.
I've known two confirmed sociopaths in my lifetime. Nothing they did ever surprised me as I knew that they were neurologically compromised. One of them also used hallucinogenic drugs, which actually did turn him into a monster.
Now, here's something else scary about the second sociopath whom I knew: he bears more than a passing physical resemblance to Breivik. I didn't realize that until just now because I try not to think about J very often.
"I think that Breivik's use of steroids exacerbated his underlying sociopathy."
A good bet.
On anti semitism in Norway.. never looked. There certainly were jews everywhere, but I'm trying to imagine the avg europpean jew, driven from Judea by Titus and pals, then finding expulsions send him all the way to a fjord, where he is both practicing, and rowing his way to rape and pillage in England. Sort of a Kirk Douglas, but with a yarmulke? (who is, btw, a tribe member)
I don’t know enough about Breivik. From his writings he tries to describe how he psyched himself up so that he could commit the atrocity that he did. You can sense the change as he writes. Now I don’t believe this would work with anyone. You have to have ... what I’ll call “the wrong stuff.” However, just as on can cultivate a virtuous character I believe one could cultivate an evil character. Evil is usually by disintegration and degeneration. It is quite frightening.
However, this wasn’t what my post was about. Norway seems to be in the grip of a mind freeze. There is a fear that is gripping the land. The post is also about the strange cultural differences. I’ve read reports that leave me wondering what’s wrong here. Here’s what seems like a trivial anecdotal memory. When Oslo had the Olympics I remember the reporter puzzled as she describe the situation. She said that the Norwegians were rooting for Tonya Harding whom they’ve viewed as a folk hero. It just made me wonder what kind of people are normal in Norway. Perhaps I make too much of this. But perhaps not. What do you think?
This is a great post, Jason. I had noticed this reticence in another article about Breivik, in which a man who Breivik had claimed was a "mentor" in business went out of his way to say he was no mentor, he only taught Breivik how to structure corporate notes for meetings, and that he thought Breivik was insane.
While I had noticed this, and thought it overboard, I did not relate it to the situation we find ourselves in, guilt by association.
But, I think you're right.
Think about it this way, in a culture which places a high emphasis on conformity (which I have been told is common in Northern European nations) of course, guilt by association would be the rule. For what proper conformist would ever pal around with a non-conformist, or worse, a person who simply can not conform?
It's just like in High School, isn't it?
And, yes, though you do not state it overtly, I do think this is a form of political chill.
Thanks, Pastorius. I think you're on to something. We tend to think of the conformity as typical PC stuff and here in the USA it certainly is. I think it has an indigenous history in these Northern European nations that compounds the problem.
I read an article, a few years back, by a Brit or American who has lived in Norway for a few years and he says the surface beliefs are very different to the reality once you get to know the people ... and if you look carefully. I wish I could remember where I read this ... perhaps the WSJ. The author also confirms that behind the facade of tolerance is a bigotry that AOW suggests. I don't remember the rest.
Of course, Breivik is guilty without excuses or any "buts." I'm just wondering about the Norwegian reaction and the cultural aftermath.
A friend of mine, whose family is from Sweden, explained to me that, in Sweden, in the 70-80's, you could "eat off the subway floor." He said it was immaculately clean because it simply was unheard of to litter. He called it "the Swedish way."
He said that anyone who violated the "Swedish way" would be shunned and made to feel extremely uncomfortable.
I'm guessing the Muslims of North Africa, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe, who have emigrated to Malmo, don't much care about being shunned, nor, I would imagine, are they very good at picking up on the subtleties of Northern European social cues.
Monday, August 01, 2011 11:40:00 pm
Anonymous said...
Yet, iirc, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali immigrant to the Netherlands, spoke/wrote of her first impressions of societal cleanliness in Scandinavia. The immigrant may not pick up the social cues to pitch in with their own fair share, but based on Ayaan's writing, they do recognize the their own societal standards do rise to the Scandinavian/western standard.
I'm not sure that the fact that Ayaan Hirsi Ali picks up on cues would be any indication that other immigrants would pick up on such cues.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:50:00 am
Anonymous said...
Let me clarify - recognition of cleanliness doesn't equate with picking up social cues. Taught ideals of muslim supremacy draw the line as to the immigrants expectations that infidel society 1. owes them these improved sanitary conditions 2. maintenance of such conditions is beneath their imagined superiority, and the degraded condition of their surroundings is somehow the infidel society's problem. For instance, how many muslim trash collectors or recycling sorters are there? Do muslim residents actually clear up after each car'b'que? Just asking.
I get your meaning. I wonder who does the clearing of trash in Muslim countries? I'll ask some friends.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:22:00 am
Anonymous said...
Pastorius . . .look to Egypt provides an example,with the 'Zabbaleen' (sp?), the Coptic garbage collectors.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:45:00 am
Anonymous said...
Additionally, consider the various Emirates and Saudi Arabia - all Arab muslim countries import non-Arab help. IIRC, recently read about one of the Emirates (Dubai?)whose population is more than 3/4 non-citizen (temp. workers w/near slave labor - considering many do not get paid and have little to no recourse because their passports are confiscated upon arrival). Islam is an Arab supremcacy racket (blacks remain 'abed' or slave by qur'anic doctrine)
@ Always on Watch "Doesn't Norway have a long history of bigotry, particularly anti-Semitic bigotry?." King Christian V banned all Jews from Norway in 1687 and the ban was only lifted in 1851. During the World War II Norwegian police did help the Germans to round up those Jews who had not fled Norway to Sweden. There is more at: http://www.imageusa.com/index.php/community-articles/36-jewish-communities/137-the-jews-of-norway.html
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:42:00 pm
In thisTelegraph article the author tries to find a clue to the vicious mass murderer, Andres Breivik, by tracking down those who knew him. What’s bizarre is that all his acquaintances are frightened to talk about him. The father of his Muslim childhood friend says “The family are terrified of being dragged into the mire. But a family friend said: ‘Arsalan hasn’t known him [Breivik] for 25 years. They were only at primary school together. Arsalan can’t be blamed for what Anders Breivik has done.’”
Why should a childhood friend be afraid because of the crimes of an adult 25 years later? In America everyone who ever knew a criminal are eager to give their impressions. No one expects harm even if their are related by blood. Virtually all who knew Breivik won’t talk to the media and a few who did won’t give their name. There seems to be a fear of guilt-by-association. We counter-jihadi writers know about that. Some of the writers he cites receive hate-mail and threats. Absolutely no major counter-jihadi writer advocates violent overthrow of Western governments and all have condemned this lunatic's acts.
In Norway guilt-by-association and fear of expression are creating a repressive atmosphere. What’s going on there? Does anyone know? Perhaps the last sentences of that article have a clue:Peter Svaar, who was friends with the young Breivik, is struggling to come to terms with what has happened. “What keeps me awake at night is not that he’s a monster,” says Mr Svaar, “it is that he is a regular, Norwegian boy.”I confess to be perplexed by this and what we read in the blog posts below. What's happening in Norway?
16 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment form“it is that he is a regular, Norwegian boy.” .. I doubt it.
SERIOUSLY
Pathological people are not stupid.
Ted Bundy was extremely charming.
But maybe, they are all afraid that deep inside every one of them there lies an Eichmann.
Unlikely, but there you go.
Over here we are really just a bunch of big mouths waiting for the opportunity to tell you go fuck yourself.
LIVE ON O'REILLY
Monday, August 01, 2011 7:12:00 pm
Doesn't Norway have a long history of bigotry, particularly anti-Semitic bigotry?
Monday, August 01, 2011 7:20:00 pm
Just a guess here: I think that Breivik's use of steroids exacerbated his underlying sociopathy.
I've known two confirmed sociopaths in my lifetime. Nothing they did ever surprised me as I knew that they were neurologically compromised. One of them also used hallucinogenic drugs, which actually did turn him into a monster.
Now, here's something else scary about the second sociopath whom I knew: he bears more than a passing physical resemblance to Breivik. I didn't realize that until just now because I try not to think about J very often.
Monday, August 01, 2011 7:24:00 pm
"I think that Breivik's use of steroids exacerbated his underlying sociopathy."
A good bet.
On anti semitism in Norway.. never looked. There certainly were jews everywhere, but I'm trying to imagine the avg europpean jew, driven from Judea by Titus and pals, then finding expulsions send him all the way to a fjord, where he is both practicing, and rowing his way to rape and pillage in England. Sort of a Kirk Douglas, but with a yarmulke? (who is, btw, a tribe member)
Ahhhh I can hear the horns now, no uh.... shofars
But the Eichmann ref was to 'order seeking monsters'.
Monday, August 01, 2011 8:53:00 pm
I don’t know enough about Breivik. From his writings he tries to describe how he psyched himself up so that he could commit the atrocity that he did. You can sense the change as he writes. Now I don’t believe this would work with anyone. You have to have ... what I’ll call “the wrong stuff.” However, just as on can cultivate a virtuous character I believe one could cultivate an evil character. Evil is usually by disintegration and degeneration. It is quite frightening.
However, this wasn’t what my post was about. Norway seems to be in the grip of a mind freeze. There is a fear that is gripping the land. The post is also about the strange cultural differences. I’ve read reports that leave me wondering what’s wrong here. Here’s what seems like a trivial anecdotal memory. When Oslo had the Olympics I remember the reporter puzzled as she describe the situation. She said that the Norwegians were rooting for Tonya Harding whom they’ve viewed as a folk hero. It just made me wonder what kind of people are normal in Norway. Perhaps I make too much of this. But perhaps not. What do you think?
Monday, August 01, 2011 9:53:00 pm
This is a great post, Jason. I had noticed this reticence in another article about Breivik, in which a man who Breivik had claimed was a "mentor" in business went out of his way to say he was no mentor, he only taught Breivik how to structure corporate notes for meetings, and that he thought Breivik was insane.
While I had noticed this, and thought it overboard, I did not relate it to the situation we find ourselves in, guilt by association.
But, I think you're right.
Think about it this way, in a culture which places a high emphasis on conformity (which I have been told is common in Northern European nations) of course, guilt by association would be the rule. For what proper conformist would ever pal around with a non-conformist, or worse, a person who simply can not conform?
It's just like in High School, isn't it?
And, yes, though you do not state it overtly, I do think this is a form of political chill.
Monday, August 01, 2011 10:21:00 pm
Thanks, Pastorius. I think you're on to something. We tend to think of the conformity as typical PC stuff and here in the USA it certainly is. I think it has an indigenous history in these Northern European nations that compounds the problem.
I read an article, a few years back, by a Brit or American who has lived in Norway for a few years and he says the surface beliefs are very different to the reality once you get to know the people ... and if you look carefully. I wish I could remember where I read this ... perhaps the WSJ. The author also confirms that behind the facade of tolerance is a bigotry that AOW suggests. I don't remember the rest.
Of course, Breivik is guilty without excuses or any "buts." I'm just wondering about the Norwegian reaction and the cultural aftermath.
Monday, August 01, 2011 10:36:00 pm
A friend of mine, whose family is from Sweden, explained to me that, in Sweden, in the 70-80's, you could "eat off the subway floor." He said it was immaculately clean because it simply was unheard of to litter. He called it "the Swedish way."
He said that anyone who violated the "Swedish way" would be shunned and made to feel extremely uncomfortable.
I'm guessing the Muslims of North Africa, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe, who have emigrated to Malmo, don't much care about being shunned, nor, I would imagine, are they very good at picking up on the subtleties of Northern European social cues.
Monday, August 01, 2011 11:40:00 pm
Yet, iirc, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali immigrant to the Netherlands, spoke/wrote of her first impressions of societal cleanliness in Scandinavia. The immigrant may not pick up the social cues to pitch in with their own fair share, but based on Ayaan's writing, they do recognize the their own societal standards do rise to the Scandinavian/western standard.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 12:39:00 am
I'm not sure that the fact that Ayaan Hirsi Ali picks up on cues would be any indication that other immigrants would pick up on such cues.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 1:50:00 am
Let me clarify - recognition of cleanliness doesn't equate with picking up social cues. Taught ideals of muslim supremacy draw the line as to the immigrants expectations that infidel society 1. owes them these improved sanitary conditions 2. maintenance of such conditions is beneath their imagined superiority, and the degraded condition of their surroundings is somehow the infidel society's problem. For instance, how many muslim trash collectors or recycling sorters are there? Do muslim residents actually clear up after each car'b'que? Just asking.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 2:31:00 am
I get your meaning. I wonder who does the clearing of trash in Muslim countries? I'll ask some friends.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:22:00 am
Pastorius . . .look to Egypt provides an example,with the 'Zabbaleen' (sp?), the Coptic garbage collectors.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:45:00 am
Additionally, consider the various Emirates and Saudi Arabia - all Arab muslim countries import non-Arab help. IIRC, recently read about one of the Emirates (Dubai?)whose population is more than 3/4 non-citizen (temp. workers w/near slave labor - considering many do not get paid and have little to no recourse because their passports are confiscated upon arrival). Islam is an Arab supremcacy racket (blacks remain 'abed' or slave by qur'anic doctrine)
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 5:16:00 am
Yes, I was going to ask some Egyptians I know.
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:47:00 pm
@ Always on Watch "Doesn't Norway have a long history of bigotry, particularly anti-Semitic bigotry?."
King Christian V banned all Jews from Norway in 1687 and the ban was only lifted in 1851. During the World War II Norwegian police did help the Germans to round up those Jews who had not fled Norway to Sweden. There is more at:
http://www.imageusa.com/index.php/community-articles/36-jewish-communities/137-the-jews-of-norway.html
Tuesday, August 02, 2011 10:42:00 pm