You say Americans have become soft, but I'm not so sure. After 9/11 it was clear the people were united and with guts (many people were ready to fight.) I believe what's happening now is that we are all utterly confused. For the first time we are looking at the possibility we the people may be look at as the enemy by our military, serving a questionable government.
I also have a question which I don't think is the kind of comment you expect but, how many people were living in that house? And was it my impression, or one of the women was wearing a hijab?
Yes, people sort of united. But, there still was and is a lot of separation in attitude.
As far as them be willing to fight. Yes, verbally there are a number of people talking about it.
I'm just not feeling real confident about how people would really behave, if a situation arrived.
Right now, I would say that a number of ex military will help. But as far as the run of the mill person, I can't say for sure.
I didn't notice the hijab. But I get the impression, that what happened at that house, happened at a lot of houses.
My post wasn't about what happened in Watertown. I'm kind of back and forth with my feelings about everything that took place there, with regards to the overwhelming force.
I would so relish the opportunity to kill some Jihadists.
I would NOT relish the opportunity to start shooting at our own Military, or Homeland Security.
I do not like that idea one bit.
It bothers me, however, that we are slowly but surely (Watertown, Tinley Park, Miami, Houston) becoming inured to the idea that the government will field armored vehicles and Black Hawk Helicopters in our cities.
That bothers me quite a bit.
At the point that that bothers me more than the prospect of us revolting against our government, the government is in big fucking trouble.
As thing stand right now, the government can get away with pretty much anything.
How many people were opposed to how they handled Watertown?
How many people feel they went overboard?
I suspect there are a lot. But, what are we to do about it?
How much power do we really have?
We can blog, bitch and write to our congressmen all we want. How much has that changed anything?
Fact is, our country is so separated in it's belief's, our government has grown so distant and so large, that there is little we can do about much of anything, anymore.
If our government did become rogue, it would happen while most of us stand around with our mouths wide open. Shock and disbelief. Then you will have half the country blindly believing the government is doing nothing wrong.
The other half pissed as hell, but feeling powerless.
Out here in Los Angeles, we had a complete police atrocity (IMO).
A man went crazy and decided to kill a police officers daughter in retaliation for what he perceived as racist slights when he had been a cop in the past.
He then released a detailed list of other police targets and evidence that he knew the various police whereabouts, and issued threats that he would begin killing multiple police men.
This became a FIVE COUNTY APB, and the police ran roughshod over our rights for days on end.
They literally shot at a truck JUST BECAUSE IT WAS DRIVING DOWN A STREET THEY WERE GUARDING, and they shot OVER 100 ROUNDS AT TWO OLD LADIES, somehow only striking each one of them once, so the miracle is, the ladies were not killed.
But that is insane.
The police were shooting without warning, without provocation, and to my knowledge, in the aftermath, they have not even apologized for their behavior, NOR HAS THEIR BEEN ANY CALL FROM ANY LOCAL MEDIA SOURCE OR GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL FOR ANY SORT OF ACTION AGAINST THE POLICE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR.
You know, there was a time when that type of behavior would not have been put up with.
But for some reason, it is now.
Monday, April 29, 2013 3:32:00 am
RT said...
Friday evening two police helicopters flew over my pasture. I then watched them circling about a 1/2 mile away.
A couple minutes later I was standing on a spot overlooking the area with a .270 .... looking for movement.
The helicopters flew away (They were looking for a Railroad tie thief, who they eventually caught several miles away)..... but as I was standing there, prepared to kill anyone approaching my house ..... I thought of the people in Watertown.
Which one of us is normal?
As far as attacking the military goes ...... I dont see that scenario ever arising for me ...... Muslims in America maybe need to worry about it, but not me.
Because I know a lot of people in the military, and I dont think any of them would follow an order to attack the general civilian population.
You'd have to divide the population into segments in order to keep the us vs them aspect in play.
And I'm too deep into the us category for a soldier from the southern US (which is where most US soldiers are from) to attack.
Think about it this way ..... how many active duty soldiers are there from your county? Could they defeat the armed civilian population in the county?
But that guy had just pulled up next to a cop car and unloaded a .50 cal into it.
Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but what if you were a cop and some rogue motherfucker was threatening your family?
I'm really OK with extraconstitutional responses when appropriate. We've done it many times in history.
Lincoln suspended Habeas corpus, went after a supreme court justice, and surrounded the Maryland statehouse with artillery to make sure they voted the way he wanted.
Frontier Justice.
Interment Camps.
The Republic survived.
Hey, I know a lot of cops that abuse the protection their badge provides .... I'd like to think if they pushed it too far the locals would take care of them if their superiors would not.
I think it happens all the time.
But so do Wacos and Ruby Ridges.
I dont know man.... if you buy a Rottweiler for protection and he protects you many times but bites you once .... What do you do?
Think about it this way ..... how many active duty soldiers are there from your county? Could they defeat the armed civilian population in the county?
I guess it really depends on the location of each county.
As you know, there are places where it is becoming very difficult for citizens to own a gun.
This whole hypothetical situation I have brought up, is part of the reason, the people who find themselves apposed to gun rights, need to think more seriously.
I think a lot of them have not delved into the real reason we were given the 2nd amendment. A lot of them think the 2nd amendment was created to protect from criminals. Wrong. It was created so that the citizens could protect themselves from a rogue government.
A large part of the reason that the people in some countries out there are unable to overthrow their government, is because they have not been allowed to have weapons.
The dictators saw to it that the citizens would not be a threat.
Just like you, I would hope that our military would not follow orders to shoot civilians.
But then again, we won't know for sure, unless this situation comes about.
I think it is better to mentally prepare for the possibility that they might.
This is a mental exercise I have thrust upon you, my friends. :)
That is a case of cop mania, just like what happened in Watertown.
They go nuts when a cop is shot. Be damned anyone get's in their way. Innocent or not.
They lose all sense of self control.
Monday, April 29, 2013 4:57:00 am
RT said...
I think the closest scenario to this, at least since the civil war, was when Robert Kennedy nationalized the guards in southern states during the forced desegregation period in the south.
In that case the local militia did turn their guns on the people.
Of course everyone in New England at the time thought that was cool.
I cannot believe how many people seriously think the Boston bombers are innocent!!
What happened to the brains of half of our population?
Monday, April 29, 2013 5:26:00 am
Anonymous said...
I paused reading the comments @ RT's statement: "... I dont think any of them would follow an order to attack the general civilian population. You'd have to divide the population into segments in order to keep the us vs them aspect in play."
Based on recent history, it appears the population is being divided. . .and so long as the msm controls the narrative, as they did decades ago @ Ruby Ridge and Waco, the vast majority of military will follow orders.
I came of age in the decade when John Lennon was cut down in the street by a madman and Reagan survived an assassination attempt. Though raised with by a lifetime member of the NRA who began training me with my first .410 shotgun when I was 5, I ended up embracing the Brady anti-gun movement -- albeit, briefly. As millions of viewers brainwashed by the media narrative which painted the players as dangerous traitorous souls during the Ruby Ridge/Waco carnage, I felt pity for the poor innocent child victims of David Koresh and Randy Weaver, shrugged and returned to my preoccupation as a full time parent hypnotised with Katie Couric's latest trendy styles and healthy recipes. Ashamed to admit it, but 9/11 (not Beirut, not Lockerbie, not OK City, not USS Cole etc.) shook me into politically consciousness. Alternate media and blogs provided another perspective. It's been a rude awakening putting these incidents into perspective. Division evident between the low-information 'social justice' voter population and the gun/bible/founding principles clinging population indicates false narratives continue to hold sway. Will the military carry through orders against the civilian population? Recent drills indicate they've already crossed the threashold of that nightmare.
Monday, April 29, 2013 12:54:00 pm
Benue said...
I think about this sometimes too. I think back to WWII when we had blackouts for fear of the Japanese flying planes and bombing us. We didn't want to let them see the ground. This would never be possible now. They could cut the power but many people have generators and would just turn their lights back on. And then all the car lights and solar lights people have. And if we were invaded, people would then break out their guns, but how many civilians would be shot by other civilians because they thought they were the enemy? Would we know who to protect ourselves from?
RT, One cop was shot and all the cops in five counties were chasing this guy.
That's just a bit of an overreaction.
And there has been no apology. Because no apology is needed.
I do like the practicality of your question: If you buy a Rottweiler to protect you and one time he bites you, what do you do?
I don't know. Put him down?
I'm not saying put the police dept. down. But I do think they ought to be seriously held accountable for what they did to all the people of five counties, and to those old ladies delivering their paper route.
This population of robots - msm brainwashed people could very well be a problem.
If there was a government takeover, we know they would be in control of the media.
Benue,
You make some excellent points. Yes, people are so defiant now compared to back during WWII. They wouldn't be able to handle the life that the citizens during that war, had to endure.
Would we know who to protect ourselves from?
Good question. I wonder how people in the other countries handle that.
Monday, April 29, 2013 1:49:00 pm
First of all, I don't expect my opinion to be popular. I am only putting it out because I feel it is important for all of us to give it some thought. I am positive their are others who have had this go through their mind at one time or another.
As many of us realize, the United States is not somehow immune to tyrrany. That although God has blessed us so far, we are only a couple of steps away from what we have watched and read about around the world.
As our government has grown larger, it has also grown farther and farther away from the individual.
As much as we would love to think that the constitution's "rules" regarding our government still stand, the fact is, we have little say so anymore in what our government does or decides.
Even when the government makes decisions that are totally distressful to the majority of us (Obamacare), there is little we can do about it (be honest).
So, how many steps are we away from losing all control?
Unlike a lot of the conspiracy theorist's out there, I do not believe in the New World Order. But, I do believe that power has gotten into the head of our government. Democrat or Republican, both sides.
Our constitution states; For the people, by the people. It is no longer that way. Sorry. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their collective graves.
So anyways.....
My post is not about what happened in Watertown. I am going back and forth in my mind regarding how I feel about what happened there with regards to the overwhelming force. There are many out there in the WWW who feel that the government overstepped it's ground.
I am merely using it as an example of what could happen.
After seeing the pictures and videos of
Watertown after the Boston bombing, I got to wondering.
In my opinion, if we, the citizens of
the US were under threat from our government, if there were “squads”
like those seen in Watertown, everywhere, I think most people would
shit their pants.
Unlike many countries in the world, the
people of the US are soft.
Could you honestly imagine seeing your
neighbors outside, shooting down guys in military uniforms?
Yes, it is easy to imagine, dream a
little dream, sound tough and mean, behind your computer screen.
But, what if it were real?
Ok, I know from what I have heard, the
people in the Boston area are not exactly the toughest. A lot of them
were seriously scared shitless by the whole thing.
Can you really say that a majority of
the people here in the US are much different?
There are a lot of countries in this
world where the people grow up around war in one form or another.
Massive street riots. Shootings, pipe
bombs, being beat unmercifully, yet they keep coming back for more.
Children are seen regularly carrying
guns, looking more grown up for their age.
Not here. Except for some pretty rough
parts of town (even then, I'm sure some would cower), the most people
here have experienced, is a really scary movie.
The people back in the civil war and pre civil war days
had guts. Those guts have gradually been bred out.
Have many of us have thought about
this?
How many of us honestly believe we
would be able to fight against our military, if it came to that?
I for one am very happy that our
country has been at peace for so long. But, has that peace
inadvertently created a people that may not have what it takes?
On a side note, another question:
Where do we the citizens go, if another
country decides to start bombing the hell out of us? Huh?
You can bet your bottom dollar the people in power have a place to go. They will be protected in the case of war.
But, not since the end of the cold war, have we been "instructed" as to what to do in case of attack. Do you know where your nearest bomb shelter is?
When is the last time you saw a public service message explaining where to go?
21 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment formYou say Americans have become soft, but I'm not so sure. After 9/11 it was clear the people were united and with guts (many people were ready to fight.) I believe what's happening now is that we are all utterly confused. For the first time we are looking at the possibility we the people may be look at as the enemy by our military, serving a questionable government.
I also have a question which I don't think is the kind of comment you expect but, how many people were living in that house? And was it my impression, or one of the women was wearing a hijab?
Monday, April 29, 2013 1:09:00 am
Yes, people sort of united. But, there still was and is a lot of separation in attitude.
As far as them be willing to fight. Yes, verbally there are a number of people talking about it.
I'm just not feeling real confident about how people would really behave, if a situation arrived.
Right now, I would say that a number of ex military will help.
But as far as the run of the mill person, I can't say for sure.
I didn't notice the hijab. But I get the impression, that what happened at that house, happened at a lot of houses.
My post wasn't about what happened in Watertown. I'm kind of back and forth with my feelings about everything that took place there, with regards to the overwhelming force.
Monday, April 29, 2013 1:31:00 am
I would so relish the opportunity to kill some Jihadists.
I would NOT relish the opportunity to start shooting at our own Military, or Homeland Security.
I do not like that idea one bit.
It bothers me, however, that we are slowly but surely (Watertown, Tinley Park, Miami, Houston) becoming inured to the idea that the government will field armored vehicles and Black Hawk Helicopters in our cities.
That bothers me quite a bit.
At the point that that bothers me more than the prospect of us revolting against our government, the government is in big fucking trouble.
They do not own us.
We own them.
Monday, April 29, 2013 2:48:00 am
They do not own us.
We own them.
And that right there is where the problem lies.
As thing stand right now, the government can get away with pretty much anything.
How many people were opposed to how they handled Watertown?
How many people feel they went overboard?
I suspect there are a lot. But, what are we to do about it?
How much power do we really have?
We can blog, bitch and write to our congressmen all we want. How much has that changed anything?
Fact is, our country is so separated in it's belief's, our government has grown so distant and so large, that there is little we can do about much of anything, anymore.
If our government did become rogue, it would happen while most of us stand around with our mouths wide open. Shock and disbelief. Then you will have half the country blindly believing the government is doing nothing wrong.
The other half pissed as hell, but feeling powerless.
Kinda the way things are now.
Monday, April 29, 2013 2:59:00 am
By the way, did you hear the police were confiscating private citizen's guns in Watertown?
I have picked up bits and pieces of this around the web, but have not been able to completely verify it.
Monday, April 29, 2013 3:09:00 am
If you verify it, you should post it.
Monday, April 29, 2013 3:13:00 am
Out here in Los Angeles, we had a complete police atrocity (IMO).
A man went crazy and decided to kill a police officers daughter in retaliation for what he perceived as racist slights when he had been a cop in the past.
He then released a detailed list of other police targets and evidence that he knew the various police whereabouts, and issued threats that he would begin killing multiple police men.
This became a FIVE COUNTY APB, and the police ran roughshod over our rights for days on end.
They literally shot at a truck JUST BECAUSE IT WAS DRIVING DOWN A STREET THEY WERE GUARDING, and they shot OVER 100 ROUNDS AT TWO OLD LADIES, somehow only striking each one of them once, so the miracle is, the ladies were not killed.
But that is insane.
The police were shooting without warning, without provocation, and to my knowledge, in the aftermath, they have not even apologized for their behavior, NOR HAS THEIR BEEN ANY CALL FROM ANY LOCAL MEDIA SOURCE OR GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL FOR ANY SORT OF ACTION AGAINST THE POLICE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR.
Is that fucking astounding, or what?
Monday, April 29, 2013 3:17:00 am
Totally fucking astounding!
You know, there was a time when that type of behavior would not have been put up with.
But for some reason, it is now.
Monday, April 29, 2013 3:32:00 am
Friday evening two police helicopters flew over my pasture. I then watched them circling about a 1/2 mile away.
A couple minutes later I was standing on a spot overlooking the area with a .270 .... looking for movement.
The helicopters flew away (They were looking for a Railroad tie thief, who they eventually caught several miles away)..... but as I was standing there, prepared to kill anyone approaching my house ..... I thought of the people in Watertown.
Which one of us is normal?
As far as attacking the military goes ...... I dont see that scenario ever arising for me ...... Muslims in America maybe need to worry about it, but not me.
Because I know a lot of people in the military, and I dont think any of them would follow an order to attack the general civilian population.
You'd have to divide the population into segments in order to keep the us vs them aspect in play.
And I'm too deep into the us category for a soldier from the southern US (which is where most US soldiers are from) to attack.
Think about it this way ..... how many active duty soldiers are there from your county? Could they defeat the armed civilian population in the county?
Not in my county.
Monday, April 29, 2013 4:21:00 am
RT,
Note that the people I am complaining about are Homeland Security and the Police.
What would you have done if the Police were running around five counties in Texas, shooting with no warning or provocation?
I did nothing and would have done nothing if I had it to do over again.
But it is fucking egregious. Right?
outlandish. Beyond the pale.
ILLEGAL. UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
Monday, April 29, 2013 4:26:00 am
Here you go:
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_22544264/police-suspecting-christopher-dorners-arrival-shoot-3-innocent
"Confuse" is too nice a word for what they did.
Monday, April 29, 2013 4:29:00 am
Yeah, I remember when that happened Pastorius.
It was bullshit.
But that guy had just pulled up next to a cop car and unloaded a .50 cal into it.
Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but what if you were a cop and some rogue motherfucker was threatening your family?
I'm really OK with extraconstitutional responses when appropriate. We've done it many times in history.
Lincoln suspended Habeas corpus, went after a supreme court justice, and surrounded the Maryland statehouse with artillery to make sure they voted the way he wanted.
Frontier Justice.
Interment Camps.
The Republic survived.
Hey, I know a lot of cops that abuse the protection their badge provides .... I'd like to think if they pushed it too far the locals would take care of them if their superiors would not.
I think it happens all the time.
But so do Wacos and Ruby Ridges.
I dont know man.... if you buy a Rottweiler for protection and he protects you many times but bites you once .... What do you do?
Monday, April 29, 2013 4:50:00 am
Think about it this way ..... how many active duty soldiers are there from your county? Could they defeat the armed civilian population in the county?
I guess it really depends on the location of each county.
As you know, there are places where it is becoming very difficult for citizens to own a gun.
This whole hypothetical situation I have brought up, is part of the reason, the people who find themselves apposed to gun rights, need to think more seriously.
I think a lot of them have not delved into the real reason we were given the 2nd amendment. A lot of them think the 2nd amendment was created to protect from criminals. Wrong. It was created so that the citizens could protect themselves from a rogue government.
A large part of the reason that the people in some countries out there are unable to overthrow their government, is because they have not been allowed to have weapons.
The dictators saw to it that the citizens would not be a threat.
Just like you, I would hope that our military would not follow orders to shoot civilians.
But then again, we won't know for sure, unless this situation comes about.
I think it is better to mentally prepare for the possibility that they might.
This is a mental exercise I have thrust upon you, my friends. :)
Monday, April 29, 2013 4:53:00 am
Pastorius,
That is a case of cop mania, just like what happened in Watertown.
They go nuts when a cop is shot. Be damned anyone get's in their way. Innocent or not.
They lose all sense of self control.
Monday, April 29, 2013 4:57:00 am
I think the closest scenario to this, at least since the civil war, was when Robert Kennedy nationalized the guards in southern states during the forced desegregation period in the south.
In that case the local militia did turn their guns on the people.
Of course everyone in New England at the time thought that was cool.
Monday, April 29, 2013 5:06:00 am
Depending on the situation, I could see certain portions of this country the same way.
We all have seen situations that are pretty bad. Half the populace doesn't think it is.
Hell, even after 9/11 you had people here saying the US deserved it.
Just shows how polarized this country is.
I also think if something were to happen, the reaction would depend on which political party is involved.
At least at first. Of course, people may decide to change their mind once it's their door that get's kicked in.
Monday, April 29, 2013 5:12:00 am
I cannot believe how many people seriously think the Boston bombers are innocent!!
What happened to the brains of half of our population?
Monday, April 29, 2013 5:26:00 am
I paused reading the comments @ RT's statement: "... I dont think any of them would follow an order to attack the general civilian population.
You'd have to divide the population into segments in order to keep the us vs them aspect in play."
Based on recent history, it appears the population is being divided. . .and so long as the msm controls the narrative, as they did decades ago @ Ruby Ridge and Waco, the vast majority of military will follow orders.
I came of age in the decade when John Lennon was cut down in the street by a madman and Reagan survived an assassination attempt. Though raised with by a lifetime member of the NRA who began training me with my first .410 shotgun when I was 5, I ended up embracing the Brady anti-gun movement -- albeit, briefly.
As millions of viewers brainwashed by the media narrative which painted the players as dangerous traitorous souls during the Ruby Ridge/Waco carnage, I felt pity for the poor innocent child victims of David Koresh and Randy Weaver, shrugged and returned to my preoccupation as a full time parent hypnotised with Katie Couric's latest trendy styles and healthy recipes. Ashamed to admit it, but 9/11 (not Beirut, not Lockerbie, not OK City, not USS Cole etc.) shook me into politically consciousness.
Alternate media and blogs provided another perspective.
It's been a rude awakening putting these incidents into perspective.
Division evident between the low-information 'social justice' voter population and the gun/bible/founding principles clinging population indicates false narratives continue to hold sway. Will the military carry through orders against the civilian population? Recent drills indicate they've already crossed the threashold of that nightmare.
Monday, April 29, 2013 12:54:00 pm
I think about this sometimes too. I think back to WWII when we had blackouts for fear of the Japanese flying planes and bombing us. We didn't want to let them see the ground. This would never be possible now. They could cut the power but many people have generators and would just turn their lights back on. And then all the car lights and solar lights people have. And if we were invaded, people would then break out their guns, but how many civilians would be shot by other civilians because they thought they were the enemy? Would we know who to protect ourselves from?
Monday, April 29, 2013 1:32:00 pm
RT,
One cop was shot and all the cops in five counties were chasing this guy.
That's just a bit of an overreaction.
And there has been no apology. Because no apology is needed.
I do like the practicality of your question: If you buy a Rottweiler to protect you and one time he bites you, what do you do?
I don't know. Put him down?
I'm not saying put the police dept. down. But I do think they ought to be seriously held accountable for what they did to all the people of five counties, and to those old ladies delivering their paper route.
Monday, April 29, 2013 1:47:00 pm
anonymous,
This population of robots - msm brainwashed people could very well be a problem.
If there was a government takeover, we know they would be in control of the media.
Benue,
You make some excellent points. Yes, people are so defiant now compared to back during WWII. They wouldn't be able to handle the life that the citizens during that war, had to endure.
Would we know who to protect ourselves from?
Good question. I wonder how people in the other countries handle that.
Monday, April 29, 2013 1:49:00 pm