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Blogger Ρωμανός ~ Romanós said...

Thank you, Pastorius, for this article, and especially for the scripture quotations at the end. These verses have been seemingly ignored by Orthodox, Catholic and many Protestant churches from the 2nd century onward till today, or else explained away, using the "authority of the Church" to reinterpret them to fit into "replacement theology" schemes, which is no theology at all.

The Church may have decided what writings were to be included in the Christian Bible, but that decision was made long ago, and not by authority from above (exercised in their own right by church hierarchs) but rather by acknowledgment by the hierarchy of those writings already regarded as scripture by the Christian PEOPLE. In other words, yes, the Church (the people of God) by their use of these writings gathered them into a corpus now called the Bible, but their selection was only ratified and proclaimed by the hierarchs of those days, confirming what the people of God believed. There is no other way to defend historic Christian orthodoxy, except by this. The Orthodox Church itself has handed down the teaching of the apostles, that it is the people, not the leaders, who guard the truth of the Christian faith in all its aspects.

Modern day church leaders, Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, often take the credit for deciding what the Bible is and what it means, and to dissent from them is viewed at best with suspicion and at worst punished by disciplinary measures. But the Word of God is clear and consistent: Israel is God's hereditary people. The rest of us have been grafted into them, and through one single Jew, namely Jesus, we have come into part of their inheritance—salvation—for as Jesus Himself said to the woman of Samaria, "Salvation is of the Jews." As for the other promises made to them by YHWH the God of Israel, we are fortunate to be living in the age when many of them are being fulfilled.

As many of you know, I am a Greek Orthodox Christian.

http://cost-of-discipleship.blogspot.com/2007/10/orthodox-church-and-israel.html

Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:39:00 pm

Blogger Pastorius said...

Thank you for the comment. You and I are in agreement.

This St. Pius order is an abomination.

Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:13:00 am

Blogger Carlos Echevarria said...

Pastorius, respectfully, I have to fundamentally disagree with you and let me expalin to you why.

First of all the Pope is not going to "resign" and if you had a sense of Papal history from Peter until John Paul II, you would comprehend that that is not how things work.

Especially because some insignificant left wing theologian believes he should.

I will concede to you that this matter was handled horribly and I am still at a lost as to the manner it was undertaken without regard to His Holiness trip to Israel in May and to the LEGITIMATE fracture it created amongst our Jewish brothers and sisters.

I am also on record, if you read my blog, as going after Bishop Martino whose rhetoric vis a vis the IDF I found quite disturbing. (who later freaked out when a bunch of Jihadist took over Milan square, ironically)

John Paul II did his level best to bring the Vatican as close as possible and to attempt to heal the rifts between the Holy See and Israel, and Jews in general.

As to the Society of St Pius what you fail to grasp was that John Paul II excommunicated them initially due to their rejecting of the Vatican II reforms, in which all strains of anti-Semitism and any liturgical bashing of Jews was prohibited.

Josef Ratzinger was actually the person who carried it out, as he was the Papal liason sent by John Paul to warn Levebre and his followers....

Bishop Williamson is a vile man who not only engages in odious counter factual re-writing of hisotry but also is one of these Moore types, in terms of 9/11.

Now there in lies the essense of this matter. It is not just the four Bishops, there are also tens of thousands of Lefevbre supporters in France which are not in accordance with Rome.

The ONLY way whatsoever for Williamson or any St.Pius follower to be in full "communion" with the Vatican is to NOW accept, wholeheartedly, Vatican II.

Hence, they would have to forswear every last vestige of anti-Semitic thought or behavior, as well as other liturgical and issues of canon law, in terms of rites, etc.

Again, I reiterate and the Pope has stated as have the USCCB nationally that any person who attempts to diminishes the Shoah is in violation of the most core principles of the church and in violation of Vatican II, which commenced this whole matter.

Regards.

Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:07:00 am

Blogger Pastorius said...

Hi Carlos,
You said: Again, I reiterate and the Pope has stated as have the USCCB nationally that any person who attempts to diminishes the Shoah is in violation of the most core principles of the church and in violation of Vatican II, which commenced this whole matter.

I said: Could you provide a link? I have not seen that.

Just for the record, I did not suggest the Pope resign.

I did, however, write that I think this is a grave error on the part of the Pope.

Here's my personal website:

www.cuanas.blogspot.com

Have a look at the sidebar. You will find that First Things magazine is there, as is the Ratzinger Fan Club.

I am not a Catholic Basher.

What I am saying, here, is basically the same thing you are saying in your last paragraph.

Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:13:00 am

Blogger Carlos Echevarria said...

Ok, I will provide the links on your personal site, thanks for the response.

If you take a look at my sidebar too, you will see I am HUGE suppporter of the IDF and I love the state of Israel!

Best Regards.

Wednesday, February 04, 2009 11:02:00 am

Blogger Pastorius said...

Thanks.

I would rather find good things to say about the Pope, as he is a man I have admired deeply to now.

By the way, I own and have read many of his books. I find him to be among the most profound thinkers in history.

Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:54:00 pm

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