"The most shocking thing about Mohammed, though, is not that his revelation in the Koran includes such violence, but that Mohammed was often convinced he was possessed by Satan when he received the revelations."
now if I remember correctly, Moses recieved the Torah directly from G-d. As far as I'm aware Christians also believe that Jesus spoke directly to G-d.
Yet Mohammed didn't. He "spoke" to the Angel Gabriel (yeah, course he did), not directly to G-d. And yes, as you pointed out Pastorius, he also admitted that he was possesed by Satan.
Yes, and you know what is interesting, Mr. J? Hitler's two favorite philosophers (H.S. Chamberlain and Friedrich Nietzsche) both alluded to spirit possession in describing their writings.
And, what's more, the writings of all three are basically the same philosophy; subjugate the weak through violence and murder. Steal from the weak, because it is better for nature that the weak become weaker and die off.
Which, of course, is the opposite of the philosophy of the Bible.
Interesting, huh? Like you said, it is something to think about.
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:50:00 pm
Anonymous said...
Another thing to consider is that Mohammed was a native of Mecca. He was born and grew up there. And yet the Meccans were his most vehement opponents. He had to go to Medina, where he was relatively unknown, to gather sufficient followers to do anything. Obviously the people who knew him best were aware that he was a fruitcake and didn't want anything to do with him.
The contrast between the Meccan and the Medinan verses cannot be stated often enough. And the Medinan verses are the later ones and, therefore, superseded, the earlier and more peaceful verses.
It is also important to understand that the Koran is usually arranged by length of chapter. Hence, one cannot read it chronologically as one can do, more or less, with the Bible.
Add to the above that Arabic doesn't have past tense, as we understand the grammatical term. See Patai's The Arab Mind to get a quick grasp of the ramifications of that tense issue; then listen to OBL speak of "the Andalusian atrocity," which isn't over and done with as far as Arabs are concerned.
Have any "moderate Muslims" suggested abrogating the Medinan verses? From what I've read, I understand that all Muslims accept the entire Koran as the very word of Allah.
You know, I am aware that most of the contributors here already know about the Meccan/Medinan distinction.
However, many of our readers may be new to the subject. Sometimes, I think we, who spend our lives on this shit (and I use that word for precision's sake) keep pushing further and further into esoteric territory, when, really, we ought to be repeating ourselves day after day.
Because, the reality is there are very basic reasons why Islam is evil and dangerous, and because our government refuses to illuminate the people as to what the real problem is, most citizens are still somewhat in the dark.
Thank you for reiterating this important point. Good thing I already have a Koran though, as Borders has banned me. HAHAHAHA! But this really cannot be stated enough, especially as it does shed light on just what Mo was up to, and the obvious fact that he was well aware of his actions and his plan for his new religion. The Meccan suras are often a mishmash of oddities that don't stand up much to the scrutiny of those who study them. The Meccan suras are so violent and offensive that they are startling to read every time, to me anyway. They always strike me anew. Reading them is like a good slap in the face.
A great chart for the chronological order of the Koran is available at www.kafirnation.com as well as some other great stuff.
Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:09:00 am
Mohammed's early experiences attempting to spread his religion in the city of Mecca left him a bitter man. By the time his religion began to catch fire in Medina, he was intent on revenge against anyone who would dare "humiliate" him by rejecting Islam.
This is the secret behind what are known as the Meccan and Medinan verses in the Koran.
If you pick up the Koran (from the top shelf of a dhimmi-Borders book store near you) and open it to the beginning Suras, you will find it to be a relatively mild-mannered book. But, if you continue to read through the Medinan verses you will find that Mohammed's ultimate vision for Islam was one of cruelty, vengeance, and murder:
Islam has two streams of theological thought; those based on Mohammed's sayings in Mecca and those penned from Medina. Both eventually were brought together in the Koran, but reflect two entirely different worldviews.
The Meccan view is the 'universalist' view that holds that Islam, Christianity and Judaism all worship the same Deity and that we are all "People of the Book."
The Medina view is the warlike, conquering Islam that is reflected in the Koran by verses such as, "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." [Sura 5.51]
Historians agree that there is a big difference between Mohammed's religious teachings from Mecca and his teachings after his migration to Medina.
In Mecca Mohammed was weak, struggling to be accepted, often mocked at and ridiculed. He tried to appeal to the people of Mecca by being compassionate and loving. His teachings condemned violence, injustice, neglect of the poor.
However, after he moved to Medina and his followers grew in strength and number, he became a relentless warrior, intent on spreading his religion by the sword.
This change in Mohammed's personality becomes apparent by comparing the Meccan and the Medinan suras. The following are some additional examples:
In Sura 73:10 God tells Mohammed to be patient with his opponents "Be patient with what they say, and part from them courteously."
In Sura 2:191 God orders him to kill his opponents "Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out..."
In Sura 2:256 Allah tells Mohammed not to impose Islam by force "There is no compulsion in religion."
In verse 193 God tells him to kill whoever rejects Islam "Fight (kill) them until there is no persecution and the religion is Allah's."
In Sura 29:46 Allah tells Mohammed to speak nicely to people of the Book (Christians and Jews) "Argue with people of the Book, other then evil doers, only by means of what are better! and say, we believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you. Our God is the same as your God, and we are surrendered to him."
Then in Sura 9:29 Allah tells him to fight the people of the Book, "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day...and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior."
To justify this sudden change in the Koran's mood from peaceful to militant, conciliatory to confrontational, Mohammed claimed that it was Allah who told him so.
Islam teaches love, temperance and moderation. It's easy enough to prove. Just read the Koran. However, since few ever will, the American face of moderate Islam will read it to you, as is evidently the case with the Bush administration.
But the same Koran teaches jihad, death and destruction out of the same pages, and while the American face of moderate Islam will never read those to you, the militant Islamist reads them every single day.
Verses like the following:
Men are superior to women (Sura 2:228).
Women have half the rights of men: in court witness (Sura 2:282) and in inheritance (Sura 4:11). A man may punish his wife by beating her (Sura 4:34).
A man may marry up to four wives at the same time (Sura 4:3).
A wife is a sex object for her husband (Sura 2:223).
Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam (Sura 9:29).
A Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend (Sura 5:51).
A Muslim apostate must be killed (Sura 9:12).
Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands (Sura 5:38).
Adultery is punished by public flogging (Sura 24:2).
Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet (Sura 5:33).
8 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment form"The most shocking thing about Mohammed, though, is not that his revelation in the Koran includes such violence, but that Mohammed was often convinced he was possessed by Satan when he received the revelations."
now if I remember correctly, Moses recieved the Torah directly from G-d. As far as I'm aware Christians also believe that Jesus spoke directly to G-d.
Yet Mohammed didn't. He "spoke" to the Angel Gabriel (yeah, course he did), not directly to G-d. And yes, as you pointed out Pastorius, he also admitted that he was possesed by Satan.
Something to think about.
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:37:00 pm
Yes, and you know what is interesting, Mr. J? Hitler's two favorite philosophers (H.S. Chamberlain and Friedrich Nietzsche) both alluded to spirit possession in describing their writings.
And, what's more, the writings of all three are basically the same philosophy; subjugate the weak through violence and murder. Steal from the weak, because it is better for nature that the weak become weaker and die off.
Which, of course, is the opposite of the philosophy of the Bible.
Interesting, huh? Like you said, it is something to think about.
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:50:00 pm
Another thing to consider is that Mohammed was a native of Mecca. He was born and grew up there. And yet the Meccans were his most vehement opponents. He had to go to Medina, where he was relatively unknown, to gather sufficient followers to do anything. Obviously the people who knew him best were aware that he was a fruitcake and didn't want anything to do with him.
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:23:00 pm
"Well, as the Bible says, 'You shall know them by their fruits.'"
Yes, and Mohammed was the biggest fruit of all! :)
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:30:00 pm
Stogie,
You know know him by the fruits he plucked.
Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:42:00 pm
The contrast between the Meccan and the Medinan verses cannot be stated often enough. And the Medinan verses are the later ones and, therefore, superseded, the earlier and more peaceful verses.
It is also important to understand that the Koran is usually arranged by length of chapter. Hence, one cannot read it chronologically as one can do, more or less, with the Bible.
Add to the above that Arabic doesn't have past tense, as we understand the grammatical term. See Patai's The Arab Mind to get a quick grasp of the ramifications of that tense issue; then listen to OBL speak of "the Andalusian atrocity," which isn't over and done with as far as Arabs are concerned.
Have any "moderate Muslims" suggested abrogating the Medinan verses? From what I've read, I understand that all Muslims accept the entire Koran as the very word of Allah.
PS: Excellent post, Pastorius!
Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:14:00 am
You know, I am aware that most of the contributors here already know about the Meccan/Medinan distinction.
However, many of our readers may be new to the subject. Sometimes, I think we, who spend our lives on this shit (and I use that word for precision's sake) keep pushing further and further into esoteric territory, when, really, we ought to be repeating ourselves day after day.
Because, the reality is there are very basic reasons why Islam is evil and dangerous, and because our government refuses to illuminate the people as to what the real problem is, most citizens are still somewhat in the dark.
Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:30:00 am
Thank you for reiterating this important point. Good thing I already have a Koran though, as Borders has banned me. HAHAHAHA! But this really cannot be stated enough, especially as it does shed light on just what Mo was up to, and the obvious fact that he was well aware of his actions and his plan for his new religion. The Meccan suras are often a mishmash of oddities that don't stand up much to the scrutiny of those who study them. The Meccan suras are so violent and offensive that they are startling to read every time, to me anyway. They always strike me anew. Reading them is like a good slap in the face.
A great chart for the chronological order of the Koran is available at www.kafirnation.com as well as some other great stuff.
Thursday, April 20, 2006 5:09:00 am