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"A new propaganda tool: Post-Apocalyptic Hacker World"

59 Comments -

1 – 59 of 59
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think your game project has some potential but it does not sound as promising as Ulillillia's Platform Masters

7 September 2011 at 15:10

Anonymous Aleksei Riikonen said...

So, you have a scenario where on one side of a conflict there are:

(1) superintelligent machines,
(2) greatly augmented and modified humans, and
(3) essentially unmodified humans.

On the other side there are:

(4) essentially unmodified humans (and not in any way an overwhelming amount, or in a dominant position when the conflict starts)

...and you mean to *seriously* suggest that in such a scenario the latter party has some chance of prevailing?

7 September 2011 at 17:20

Blogger viznut said...

No, the players in this scenario are:

1) "Machines", i.e. vast arrays of mechanized intelligence. An immense amount of raw "thinking power" but a relatively narrow scale of cognition. Remember that all the non-hacker humans have been assimilated into this array and all the "special potential of human mind" was "lost in translation" during the mind uploading process.

2) "Hackers", i.e. human beings who only have a fraction of the raw intelligence but who have dedicated their whole culture to the cultivation, development and expansion of the "special potential" that machines lack.

Thus, the conflict doesn't obey the simple mathematical logic that the machines represent but, rather, chaotically defies it. It's not a "stats versus stats" game but something where an ingenious and well-trained mind can come up with hacks and exploits that penetrate even "totally proven systems". A major point in the whole setting is that mechanized intelligence is always enslaved by abstractions (and all abstractions have faults), whereas the human mind has the special advantage of being able to transcend all abstractions.

7 September 2011 at 18:21

Anonymous Aleksei Riikonen said...

Would you agree that the assumption that the "machine side" hasn't been smart enough to preserve any "human thinking resources" makes this scenario very unrealistic?

7 September 2011 at 20:58

Blogger viznut said...

Not at all.

There's always loss of information when a real-world structure is digitized. When scanning a painting, for example, we lose the information of how the pigments behave in different types of light. Most of us don't even realize that the type of light may play a very important role, despite the fact that we can constantly observe different materials and lights with our own eyes.

When dealing with something like neural scanning and mind simulation, even specialists are blind. It is extremely difficult to check whether a digital approximation of a mind is accurate. It is even extremely difficult for a human being to come up with a decent theory of how human mind works. It took centuries before Western thinkers even realized that human thought doesn't always follow Aristotelian logic. I therefore find it quite reasonable to assume that a machine intellect (especially one that has a rather narrow and vague idea of consciousness in the first place) would probably have extreme difficulties in producing a decent digitization model of a humam mind, regardless of the amount of available raw processing/reasoning power.

Of course, there are many possible schools of thought, and most speculations are equally valid. We can't really tell what is "realistic" until we have some real mind digitization/simulation technology available. Besides, I consider realism a very secondary virtue in the construction of my world. I have chosen the rules primarily based on what is useful for my humanist hacker propaganda, not based on what I consider realistic or likely. Internal consistency is good to have, however.

7 September 2011 at 22:44

Anonymous Aleksei Riikonen said...

You seem to have assumed that when I said "human thinking resources", I meant "digitization models of a human mind".

I didn't.

Instead, what I meant to communicate is that it sounds very silly when you assume that the bad guys are so stupid that they don't keep *actual physical humans* (or perhaps only their brains) in their service, if there is even a slight reason to suspect that human tissue would be able to carry out cognitive tasks that there's no superior replacement technology available for.

8 September 2011 at 00:01

Blogger viznut said...

Oh! Well, biological human brains weren't supposed to survive World Optimization in the first place. The machines probably calculated the probability of random survivors posing a threat as extremely low compared to all the risks that might be caused by integrated biological neural networks. After all, the machines are essentially paranoid, utilitarian control-freaks that do everything they can to eliminate components that decrease predictability or can't be modelled and simulated perfectly. Besides, before World Optimization, human brains were regarded by the machines as inferior technology by all relevant standards, so it wasn't considered likely that they can provide any useful cognitive advantages.

Once the machines realized their miscalculation, however, it may be possible that they started to think about capturing some hackers in order to integrate their brains in the system.

8 September 2011 at 09:55

Blogger Printed Circuit Productions said...

I find this actully really a well thought out idea. There are curves slightly in the idea which others may/may not get however if I picked up this game i'd play ;)

My siding is with you! GREAT blog btw, I got intorduced through your message on the puredata mailing. Kudos!

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