Post a Comment On: China Matters

"Why China Hates Satellite Guided Munitions, Part 1: The Bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade in 1999"

19 Comments -

1 – 19 of 19
Blogger mister bijou said...

Your Googling skills are fine. The Observer is the Sunday edition of the Guardian...

Although it now resides on the guardian server, the heading to the report correctly attributes it to The Observer:

John Sweeney and Jens Holsoe in Copenhagen and Ed Vulliamy in Washington
Sunday October 17, 1999
The Observer

Further search on Guardian website bring up a follow-up report:

Guardian Unlimited, Sunday November 28 1999, titled, tantalizingly, Truth behind America's raid on Belgrade.

I say tantalizingly because the URL http://www.guardian.co.uk/observer/focus/story/0,,250416,00.html
leads to a page 404.

To read it, I suggest you might want to contact for assistance: userhelp@guardian.co.uk

Oh, thanks for yr post!

5:40 AM

Blogger Pete Falzarano said...

Brilliant detective work.

Another follow-on question comes to mind. Preceding the invasion on Iraq in 2003, I remember hearing about Chinese contractors setting up an elaborate fiber optic network to bolster Saddam's air defenses.

Connection?

We seemed to be able to fly stealth missions with impunity in the opening act of the war. So its clear that the Iraqi's didn't have the same capabilities as the Serbs, despite the Chinese "presence". So maybe it was the Serbs own ingenuity, not the Chinese?

Also, with the fallout from the American claims that the Chinese stole some of our closely guarded secrets regarding US nuclear weapons back in the 80s and 90s, to the spy plane that was “knocked down” several years ago (they gave us the personnel back, but not the sensitive equipment), it might make more sense that the Chinese were hoping to accumulate more American military goodness by hanging out in Belgrade. The military radio link could have given them the heads up they were hoping for if/when American technology fell into Serbian hands. The radio goes both ways, and you can’t broadcast out, unless you have a pipeline of information coming in.

I’m not saying the Chinese aren’t smart enough to build their own toys, but it appears that they have a history of reengineering American technology in order to modernize their own military. We did it to some extent in the 1940s, after all.

12:33 PM

Blogger mister bijou said...

You write: We seemed to be able to fly stealth missions with impunity in the opening act of the war. So its clear that the Iraqi's didn't have the same capabilities as the Serbs, despite the Chinese "presence". So maybe it was the Serbs own ingenuity, not the Chinese?

No, I don't think ingenuity had anything to do with it. Why? In the aftermath of the so-called Gulf War (1991), the US, UK and France declared north and a very large swath of south Iraq as no-fly zones. (France withdrew in 1998).

Soon after, the USAF and the UK's RAF began the process of knocking out most all of Iraq's air defences in Iraq's north and south, leaving the country virtually defenceless. That process of destroying air defence sites was speeded up in the six-month run-up to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 (it doesn't deserve the term war).

Hence, the US and UK forces in 2003 were able to cover a lot of empty ground in the south of Iraq (invasion from the north was precluded when the Turks said "No"), until they reached critical points (river crossings, for instance) where they met armed resistance.

For an incomplete overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_no-fly_zones

6:00 AM

Blogger Andrew said...

Both your posts outlay some interesting conspiracy theories, but I don't give them much credit. Some of the errors, both factual and logical, of the articles you've collected are pretty awful. Particularly amusing, to me at least, is the claim that not only were two "school children" killed in the attack, but photos of their bodies were covered up by the media. Apparently the truthers who believe that particular piece of tripe never stopped to ponder why two "school children" would be out in the wee hours of the night during a war while the Chinese Embassy staff were fast asleep. Perhaps there is night school for children in Serbia.

Also, can you point to an official (US) source for what weapons were used? Links in your post variously claim JDAM's and TLAM's. Looking the damage to the building I don't think there's anyway they were 2000 pound Mk 84 weapons. Mk 84's are VERY rarely used in an urban environment, and 4 would have leveled that building. It's much, more likely they were GBU-38's which use the Mk 82 500 pound weapon. For a variety of reasons, targeteers prefer the 82 to the 84. Of course, propagandists much prefer the 84. I also examined some of the pictures of the dud bomb still in the ground. Curiously, it's nose-up and based upon rough measurements of the weapon made by comparing it to other objects in the frame it's almost certainly not a mk. 84.

I also don't find the radio relay theory all that convincing. For one, China knows our SIGINT capability and would know that we'd detect such activity. Assuming for a minute the attack was deliberate in targeting the Chinese, one could argue it's justified - is not aiding an enemy militarily an act of aggression itself?

As for the F-117 technology theory, remember that the plane uses very basic 1970's stealth technology. It primarily relies on angles and radar absorbing paint and glass. Although I'm sure the Russians and Chinese gleened some informative information from the wreckage, I seriously doubt it warranted such a brazen attack.

9:03 PM

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