Comments on Tales of the Rampant Coyote: The Uncanny Valley: Give It Up Already

I definitely feel it's possible to do the same kin...

2008-10-30T01:12:00.000-07:00

I definitely feel it's possible to do the same kind of stylized, "fun" violence or weird stuff with 3D graphics - it's not just a 2D / 3D thing. But you definitely need to have the correct artistic style to pull it off.

Although - it was noted in the Penny Arcade Adventures game that there were a couple of problems with hair that simply can't exist in 3D. They had to make some changes... :) So maybe there are a few limitations there...

Sierra had a whole slew of ridiculous deaths in e...

2008-10-29T22:34:00.000-07:00

Sierra had a whole slew of ridiculous deaths in early adventures, none of which would be funny if the graphics were anywhere near realistic.

Games can't be comical in the Disney channel sense when the the avatar and NPCs are getting sliced & fragged with blood fountains etc. - that's for sure.

But not all games have to be comical to succeed.
Look at Resident Evil 4 - a highly unfunny game with appropriate and creative avatar deaths ;-)

Cartoon characters of course don't necessarily mean that the game itself is good clean harmless family fun or simply on the lighter side but in the western hemisphere this is often associated.
Put those "cute" or "wacky" Super Deformed characters in a game and people often perceive it as child's play.

Personally, I have no problem with the Uncanny Valley - what bothers me most is a game with a beautifully designed world (realistic or artistic) with little immersion because of missing manipulation opportunities.
By this I mean: Does it suffice for an RPG to only find stuff in random crates? What good are splinter when I shoot into wooden structures when it is impossible for me to destroy these structures completely?
Those splinters are eye candy and have little to no effect on gameplay.

The other extreme is a game which puts me into, for example, a palace with 99 rooms - each modelled accuratedly and with dozens of objects (most identical, of course) in each room.

IMHO, for a gamer the appearance of a game steps into the shadows at some point in the game and he cares much more about the interaction and the story (if there is one).
The consequence of that can only be that interaction has the highest priority and everything else comes second.

And this is exactly why many newer commercial games fail to impress and games with non-perfect rendering at their time were highly successful ("Deus Ex" for example).

Semi-tangent, but related. I was discussing the id...

2008-10-29T16:01:00.000-07:00

Semi-tangent, but related. I was discussing the idea of making Bond-style dating games (spying, exotic locales, gorgeous guys/girls, and MORTAL PERIL) and that got me thinking of Leisure Suit Larry 2, which basically is a Bond parody... But because the graphical quality in that game is SO far from realistic, they can get away with doing awful things to the avatar for comedic purposes.

Having the laser actually cut the spy in half when he reaches a bad end isn't a reasonable option with today's graphics. Even the semi-cartoony figures of LSL Magna Cum Laude would be far too disturbing if they were sliced up, imo.

Sierra had a whole slew of ridiculous deaths in early adventures, none of which would be funny if the graphics were anywhere near realistic. (I remember Roger Wilco being cut in half, drilled through the head, slicing his hands off and bleeding to death, being crushed into a cube, being crushed into goo...)

And certain other LSL2 scenes, like the painful body waxing (long story), wouldn't work the same without the over-the-top exaggeration allowed by the crude graphics.

I despaired of fighting games when they went 3d, because the 3d characters never manage to have as much personality and wackiness as the 2d characters, who can distort in so many ways. And I despair of cartoons if they're completely replaced by 3d CGI...

Great Post! My question has always been, what is t...

2008-10-29T14:57:00.000-07:00

Great Post! My question has always been, what is there to be gained by this extra layer of reality? Video games are not real. Yes, real elements in a game are fun, but real elements in a game with cartoon style characters is just as fun. I think realism is simply the hype mainstream game companies use to take the edge off a boring game.

When I think of games that have incredible art, I am usually looking at something like this.

Tales Weaver

And kudos to coyote for keeping it real with cartoon characters. :)

But this brings up another issue - which is the ne...

2008-10-29T14:24:00.000-07:00

But this brings up another issue - which is the need for really brilliant art direction.

I remember this topic coming up in the initial design discussion for a game my studio was going to put together. I love games that have a more stylistic approach to the art, and I thought that our new game should take that approach.

I failed to convince, however, and the reason why in part was because I didn't state the reasoning as well as you just did up above:

Photorealistic isn't easy, but it is a lazy approach compared to producing quality, consistent stylized graphics.

Lazy is the key word there. Yes, we can use textures that look like real-world surfaces. But that is lazy. I made the mistake of saying it would be "easier to go with a more cartoony look", when what I should've said was it would be "lazy to go with a photorealistic look".

Lesson learned. ;)

I think you answered the question yourself when yo...

2008-10-29T11:31:00.000-07:00

I think you answered the question yourself when you wrote,

"Tunnell questions why the video game industry still keeps trying to brute-force its way across that valley when we have clearly reached a point where things are going to get worse before they get better."

It's because that valley can, and someday will, be crossed. But unless we keep trying to bridge the gap, we'll never get there.

Indie game studios should probably not be building that bridge, but I want to see the Bethesda Softworks and the BioWares keep plugging away at it. It won't happen tomorrow, and it might not even happen in a decade. But someday, it will happen, and it'll be friggin' sweet.