tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post7943987629802527550..comments2008-02-04T09:01:39.829-05:00Ted Rallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15206037144515105918noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-10590226270430300032008-02-03T22:26:00.000-05:002008-02-03T22:26:00.000-05:00Nope, pretty sure you're the one who can't understand reason here.<BR/><BR/>I'm not talking about taste OR knowledge. I'm talking about "art." Which is, if we're to be honest here, a complete myth. No such thing.<BR/><BR/>Nothing's art unless everything is. Once you designate one form of music ("Jazz" say, which I LIKE btw) as "art" and claim that some other form is not (country, polka, speed metal, martial, whatever) then you are in every sense making a subjective judgement based on personal knowledge.<BR/><BR/>While that judgement may be backed up by "thousands of hours of exposure" (or however you put it), it is STILL a judgement.<BR/><BR/>Unless, of course, you agree that someone who has spent thousands of hours listening to country et all is just a justified in arguing that there's is as relevant an art form as yours.<BR/><BR/>If you agree to that last point then we have no basic disagreement.<BR/><BR/>But you're still a foul-mouthed intolerant jackass.Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-4163946832569250802008-02-03T14:41:00.000-05:002008-02-03T14:41:00.000-05:00Once again "a" shows his (or her) ignorance. Your last comment shows you cannot distinguish taste from knowledge.<BR/><BR/>I've already clearly answered your questions in my previous post. I'd tell you to re-read it, but it's apparent you cannot read, nor think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-80349565962382117512008-02-03T11:10:00.000-05:002008-02-03T11:10:00.000-05:00"Genre" is an illusion.<BR/>Why get hung up on the relative value of your favorite kind of music? When I first went to Berklee I had some pretty strong music prejudices like the ones we see here. But I knew that music is an essential component of everything. Everything.<BR/>By the time I graduated (and after peer-conversations much like one of the threads in these comments), I had concluded that genre doesn't matter. You like what you like; I like what I like. My joy in my music is no greater when I try to prove I'm right.Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08112148819715996300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-65316061520960154392008-02-02T23:33:00.000-05:002008-02-02T23:33:00.000-05:00Amazing how much traffic this thread has generated. You people are silly.michel foucault's worn out sphincternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-25138858746254082442008-02-02T23:21:00.000-05:002008-02-02T23:21:00.000-05:00Okay, your responce begs the question: How exactly does one determine who is and who is not "qualified" to judge "art" of any kind? <BR/><BR/>After all, all art is relative. Anyone who says different is an elitist.Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-61702223262154247062008-02-02T21:28:00.000-05:002008-02-02T21:28:00.000-05:00love this thread. I love how Ted gets trashed every time by different crowds. He actually pissed me off once in 1999 when he said something along the lines that the civil rights movement made no impact, and that it was actually white people's fear of marauding hoards that led to real concessions. Turning the other cheek is not really what gets things done, etc. What a prick.angelonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-26988368961729574712008-02-02T20:10:00.000-05:002008-02-02T20:10:00.000-05:00One more thing ...<BR/><BR/>To your comment "It (jazz) is not currently a cultural artifact tied to deep social changes, it's just music."<BR/><BR/>That comment is EXACTLY what people like you have no business making assessments about jazz's (or any music's) relevance. If you think that any music's relevance is "tied to deep social changes", you are clueless to the real power and purpose of music. I thank God (and I'm an athiest) that musicians who love music itself continue to push forward despite clownish tastemakers like yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-21905972540702981242008-02-02T20:05:00.000-05:002008-02-02T20:05:00.000-05:00It has nothing to do with taste, as I stated earlier. I don't care what you like and what you don't like, nor anyone else. If you (Ted) don't like jazz then say "I don't like jazz". To say it's not relevant requires a deep understanding of the art form, backed up by thousands of hours of listening . If I were to state "political cartoons are not relevant", I would be full of shit. Why? Because I couldn't even name 5 political cartoonists in all history. I don't know the art form, and therefore have absolutely no claim to its relevance. On the other hand, I can say "I don't like political cartoons. They bore me".<BR/><BR/>To answer the other poster, how is an art form's relevance determined? By those who are qualified to make such determinations, mainly those who are either active participants or deeply knowledgeable about it. Everyone else just "knows what they like and don't like." You want to know the current relevance of jazz? Ask Ornette. Not Ted.<BR/><BR/>Those are 2 completely separate concepts, and frankly sometimes your shallow comments surprise me Ted. A few other posters have stated this as well.<BR/><BR/>And if I sound pissed, I am. There's a lot of improvising musicians out there who have worked their asses off, and continued pushing the music forward. They ARE relevant. Just because they aren't selling and Beyonce is (again, that's taste) doesn't mean they're not relevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-70977911448056602652008-02-02T17:31:00.000-05:002008-02-02T17:31:00.000-05:00True enough point from Ted there. Who does come here for a mannered discussion? Certainly not me!<BR/><BR/>I made a mistake and am sorry.<BR/><BR/>And so, as I head out to work and in the spirit of the site:<BR/><BR/>A merry FUCK YOU to all, and to all a fuck tonight!Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-3052159552531630882008-02-02T16:44:00.000-05:002008-02-02T16:44:00.000-05:00Hell hath no fury as a fan scorned! Why do people get so pissy when someone insults their favorite band or author or whatever?<BR/><BR/>Here, go ahead, insult my favorite directors: Billy Wilder, Paul Verhoeven, Richard Linklater. Say bad things about my favorite musical genres: punk, New Wave, electroclash, synthpop. Diss my favorite bands: the Dead Kennedys, Clash, Ramones, J Church, Cinerama.<BR/><BR/>I DON'T CARE. I like what I like, hate what I hate, and I say so and expect other people to do the same. "Ill-mannered," indeed. Who comes to the Rallblog for mannered discussion?<BR/><BR/>Jazz bores me. Lots of people I respect like jazz, so there's obviously something to it, but I personally don't care about it enough to hate it. So sue me. It's not like I'm going to round up jazz fans and send them to camps, you know?<BR/><BR/>Aggie Dude wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>That's what Ted means by relevance I think, getting mad at him for his statement about Jazz is missing the point, regardless of how many people buy Jazz or even listen to Jazz. It is not currently a cultural artifact tied to deep social changes, it's just music.</I><BR/><BR/>Just so.<BR/><BR/>For example, I don't listen to much hip hop--but it's clearly relevant.<BR/><BR/>My beef with The Nation is that nothing they're into--in terms of pop culture or, for that matter, politics--is relevant to most people's lives.Tedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15206037144515105918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-72855583141537663932008-02-02T15:45:00.000-05:002008-02-02T15:45:00.000-05:00I think Ted and Anon 2:18 PM need to have a hug!....sorry, maybe that's the next post.<BR/><BR/>To be fair, Jazz was extremely relevant in the 1970s and 1980s in Soviet Eastern Europe. It's what kids listened to as a soft form of protest, the way that punk kids in the US and Britain were doing.<BR/><BR/>That's what Ted means by relevance I think, getting mad at him for his statement about Jazz is missing the point, regardless of how many people buy Jazz or even listen to Jazz. It is not currently a cultural artifact tied to deep social changes, it's just music.<BR/><BR/>It's like saying the 1968 super bowl was relevant but this years isn't, regardless of the Pats 16-0 or the number of viewers.<BR/><BR/>Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I get annoyed with peoples' intransigence to 'getting a clue.'Aggie Dudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-56918704936854728432008-02-02T15:38:00.000-05:002008-02-02T15:38:00.000-05:00Okay then. What DOES determine an "art" form's relevance?<BR/><BR/>Seems a fair question after your ill mannered, insulting post.<BR/><BR/>Bet your answer has smething to do with sujective taste...Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-78974434617040435342008-02-02T14:18:00.000-05:002008-02-02T14:18:00.000-05:00Ted,<BR/><BR/>Shut the fuck up about the relevance of jazz. You're a an ignoramus that couldn't even being to understand nor appreciate the art form. If you do, then simply explain this to me:<BR/><BR/>What was Ornette Coleman's main contribution to jazz, and what is its historical importance?<BR/><BR/>(I'll know if your answer is credible or some b.s. you copy from Wikipedia).<BR/><BR/>If you can't answer, then you don't have any claims to make about jazz. Sales (are people buying?) and subjective taste (is it good?) have nothing to do with an art form's relevance. <BR/><BR/>Stick to what you know jackass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-58577655065819482372008-02-02T12:39:00.000-05:002008-02-02T12:39:00.000-05:00Boring topicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-30141163837521731712008-02-02T12:34:00.000-05:002008-02-02T12:34:00.000-05:00Yep. Country/pop is crap (imho), but there are some genuine Country singers still out there (Brad Paisley comes most readily to mind). They may be inoffensive (whatever that means) and either conservative/apolitical in musical outlook, but they're still MUCh preferable to the army of AMERICAN IDLE-ers invading the genre right now.<BR/><BR/>And yes, I used a different spelling there on purpose.<BR/><BR/>Best to all!<BR/>AAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-45073356167676935192008-02-02T10:41:00.000-05:002008-02-02T10:41:00.000-05:00Hey Ted, next time you're in San Diego, cruz over to my house and we'll listen to some country (hehehe).....and maybe we can add some drunken verses to Irish drinking songs (maybe an argument against poetry not mattering)?<BR/><BR/>awesome.bsdnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-83329196540365726682008-02-02T10:12:00.000-05:002008-02-02T10:12:00.000-05:00I'd say that new pop/country is a prime example of something that is 'relevant' today but utterly atrocious in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>Within the context of discussing relevance of cultural artifacts, Ted, I'd like to add (and suggest) that I think the digital age makes many things less relevant. Technology has gotten to the point where people have access to enormous variety. Not just of media, but access to distinct foods, connection to those speaking different languages, etc.<BR/><BR/>A good example is a newer neighborhood of houses that are all very idiosyncratic and unique, vs. older neighborhoods where all the houses are clearly a rotating pattern of 3 or 4 designs. The extreme of this is in Europe where villages are very homogeneous by design.<BR/><BR/>'relevance' means something that provides a shared reality amongst a large swath of different people, right? The Beatles were relevant.<BR/><BR/>Society is becoming increasingly difficult to manage because we all live in different worlds and are not connected by shared experience, even within the same neighborhood.<BR/><BR/>Any power base that exists now seems to do so through the suppression of uniqueness, not the celebration of it.Aggie Dudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-30227524865164442432008-02-02T09:12:00.000-05:002008-02-02T09:12:00.000-05:00If it amounts to 12 % of sales, I'd say classical is pretty damn relevant, also to the developement of modern music.<BR/>And hip-hop? They used to call it 'stuttering' and it could be cured.Andersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-45565892759458020632008-02-02T08:06:00.000-05:002008-02-02T08:06:00.000-05:00DRC & Aggie Dude;<BR/><BR/>Don't forget, and as many posters on this site prove, that dangerous hatred cuts both ways. Or is it okay for one group to hate another if it happens to be the group to which you belong?<BR/><BR/>Just curious,<BR/>AAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-59563375023916382902008-02-02T06:41:00.000-05:002008-02-02T06:41:00.000-05:00Well, thanks for the Obama Reconcilliation council. utube Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain,<BR/>Benny Golson's Along Came Betty, Horace Silver's Peace. <BR/><BR/>Hey: different strokes. <BR/><BR/>Terry Gilliam's BRAZIL, Kevin Smith's DOGMA, Tarkovsky's ANDREI RUBLEV not relevant? Not not.<BR/><BR/>The Nation got hit with the new jacked-up Time Warner-coerced postal rates (used to kill off all the "independent" magazines, while Time/Newsweek etc. got their rates lowered by the USPostOffice - brought to you by Disney -) so maybe they're just trying to appeal to the people that are now lining their kitchen cabinets with the New New New New Yorker.<BR/><BR/>Fiction: check out Denis Johnson - "Angels"- ;Tillie Olsen's "Tell Me a Riddle", Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery"<BR/><BR/>Poetry: Dylan Thomas' "The Refusal To Mourn The Death, By Fire, of a Child in London". Psalms, bubbie. Where else are the interior wisdoms to be found "in plain sight" for those with eyes to see and ears to hear?<BR/><BR/>painting: check out Guernica again - Picasso's response to the Nazi's "Shock & Awe" bombing.<BR/>"Shock & Awe" our new "Shuck 'n' Jive". Relevant as an expletive so strong it hasn't been coined yet because the old curses don't have enough power to pierce the present so-called Reality.<BR/><BR/>photography: Let Us Now Praise Famous Men - relevant. To me. Family of Man.<BR/><BR/>anti-pretention - fine - anti music? Naw. You're just too heartbroken by the real deal, the imprimaturs of Oprah and before her Billy Graham. <BR/><BR/>Soothing the savage beast raving within us all here gathered watching the destruction of all we hold precious, the criminal hypocrisy we may all convict ourselves of - hating our own complicity in the Starbucks Nation. <BR/><BR/>music? The Mozart Requiem, maybe, to grieve the death of democracy. The Faure Requiem to console us as we rage/weep, "Rough Side of the Mountain" and "Roumania, Roumania" to get us dancing, and Shirley Horn to help us listen.<BR/><BR/>Anger turned outward agression<BR/>Anger turned inward depression<BR/>Anger turned sideways HUMOR<BR/><BR/>onward & excelsior, Ted!!!!!!<BR/><BR/>quality not quantity ; "relevance" is so individual: what is the poultice you use to strengthen you?Absolva Maenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-43156892499879339192008-02-01T21:56:00.000-05:002008-02-01T21:56:00.000-05:00ag: <BR/><BR/>p.s.,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the lecture.Jacques-Marie-Émile Lacannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-54794672538852225882008-02-01T21:37:00.000-05:002008-02-01T21:37:00.000-05:00Ok AD, next time I'll use an emoticon so you'll know its a joke. <BR/><BR/>; )<BR/><BR/>There, I hope that helps.department of postmodern studiesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-90498012915226254822008-02-01T21:11:00.000-05:002008-02-01T21:11:00.000-05:00<I>Since you're the arbiter of everything now, why is Jazz not relevant, and what is, oh king of insurmountable ego?</I><BR/><BR/>I'm the arbiter of my own opinion. Others may, and should frequently, disagree. They are the arbiters of their opinions, and we can make brash comments to one another without ethnic cleansing resulting. <BR/><BR/>Jazz is not a mass market medium, accounting for only about 3 percent of music sales. Classical, which is pretty irrelevant too, is about 12 percent.<BR/><BR/>What's relevant? Rock, hip hop, and R&B. I hate R&B, by the way. Relevant doesn't always equal good.Tedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15206037144515105918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-8021745357813135742008-02-01T20:43:00.000-05:002008-02-01T20:43:00.000-05:00Ted be da man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5288939.post-29451053766384885832008-02-01T19:17:00.000-05:002008-02-01T19:17:00.000-05:00Since you're the arbiter of everything now, why is Jazz not relevant, and what is, oh king of insurmountable ego?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com