Comments on The Greenwich Phantom: New Capital Quay!!!

A few notes on this old thread. Am an MQ resident ...

2009-06-03T14:30:08.262+01:00

A few notes on this old thread. Am an MQ resident who has bought in NCQ:

1. NCQ will be gated in the sense that individual blocks will have access restricted courtyards that the developers describe as 'home zones.' Free movement around the blocks and the riverside is therefore not restricted. Social housing will be constructed on the Creed Rd side of the site (by the bin sheds). All new developments of this size are required to have a percentage 'affordable' via housing associations.

2. MQ is in Deptford. The part of Deptford which it sits in is controlled by Greenwich Council and we pay Greenwich Tax, not Lewisham.

3. MQ suffers terrible crime rates, largely burglary of homes and cars and occasionally muggings. Part of this is due to opportunism and lack of sufficient policing. Some is due to nefarious local element. Some is due to people parking Porches next to a run down council estate full of kids with nothing else to do.
It is in this light that a section of residents are so terrified and fed up that they wish they lived in a more secure area than they do - however misguided this might be from a social integration perspective.

4. A large section of people at MQ want a foot bridge built over the creek. This will almost certainly not happen because a) Nobody is required to pay for it from a planning perspective, b) It will restrict or complicate river access for the concrete works and c) NCQ residents are unlikely to want to be further connected to the crime plagued Deptford side.

Incidentally the developmers of MQ were meant to do something with the derelict pier adjacent to the site as a condition of planning. The abysmal local council completely failed to do anything in typical fashion.

I have major concerns about the ability of already stretched local infrastructure (transport, health & waste) to cope with the massive influx of new residents with the extensive new high density developments that are in progress. Can you imagine trying to get on the overland train in the morning? :-(

Honestly they could not have thought of a better n...

2008-10-13T21:01:00.000+01:00

Honestly they could not have thought of a better name in these heady credit crunch times. The chances of actually raising the finance for this project now is very unlikely. Work on the Paynes & Borthwick Wharf has ceased due to the moneyman pulling the plug and the Galliard fashion for buy now with 5% deposit won't work when the outcome is a flat worth less than you signed on the dotted line for.
Trust in the investment banker as every cloud has a silver lining. Great blog by the way.

Yes Millennium Quay is in SE8, but Deptford is in ...

2007-12-04T11:16:00.000Z

Yes Millennium Quay is in SE8, but Deptford is in the borough of Lewisham, and Millennium Quay residents pay their council tax to Greenwich. At least I did when I lived there...

Sorry to be a pedant but I couldn't resist wading into this one!

Anonymous, I sincerely hope you lose your trousers...

2007-10-05T23:47:00.000+01:00

Anonymous, I sincerely hope you lose your trousers too.

I have been reading everyone's comments about NCQ....

2007-10-05T22:23:00.000+01:00

I have been reading everyone's comments about NCQ. I am a thin cat...defenitely not wealthy...but have managed to join the fat cats and bought a flat in NCQ at the launch. If you can't beat them... I will let you guys know if and when I lose my shirt!!

Yo, Brian!I went to have a look at the development...

2007-10-03T08:53:00.000+01:00

Yo, Brian!

I went to have a look at the development the other day, and I guess the 'gated' bit could be the end of the Peninsula. I confess it's not doing much at the moment there (I'm most intrigued by the scaffolding tower - was that erected so that they could take a photo of the "actual view" they're promising in the ad?)but gates are grim - they DO create a them and us feel - they make the people outside feel resentful that they are not "trusted" and the people inside feel cut off from the world IMHO.

I agree with you about MQ. With one tiny little corner store, there is a lonesome feel about it. Presumably as the rest of it builds up, they will think to put some facilities in there rather than just assume that everyone wants to use it as a dormitory...

As a resident of MQ I agree that the gate at the f...

2007-10-03T08:36:00.000+01:00

As a resident of MQ I agree that the gate at the front of the development is slightly ridiculous. However, comments that NCQ won’t be such a fortress are missing the point that the residential blocks will be at least 10 storeys high with the ‘signature’ block reaching a jaw-dropping 13 storeys. Compare that to MQs 6 storeys and ‘fine mixture of town houses’!! Probably a main contributor to the gated feel of MQ is that there are no public amenities, save the Mace corner store, which means no ‘local’ has need to go to the area magnifying its feel as a gated community. Blame the developer Fairview and the Council, not us.

Anyway, I digress from the NCQ. No investor will lose their shirt. The FIRST ‘apartments’ will not be ready until 2011. I’m not even a casual economist but am willing to wager that any fluctuation in house prices will have levelled off by then. And the Canary Wharf effect is not going away; so I can’t believe a previous comment that you can find a house in West Greenwich for under £400k. It ain’t happening!!

As a Deptford/Greenwich resident, I love the local area and enjoy it as much as possible. That West Londoners think it ‘uncool’ is fine by me – leaves it to us. But facts remain. The dirt where NCQ will be needs to be improved and Pizza Luna type restaurants need to go!

There is nothing wrong with luxury flats. There is...

2007-10-02T13:42:00.000+01:00

There is nothing wrong with luxury flats. There is everything wrong with Gated Communities. I have lived in them in the past in Surrey Quays (just because they were there, not because they were gated) and they do cut people off from the community at large.

They give the impression that you need to be scared of the other people who live in the area and this can create a "them and us" atmosphere.

It isn't healthy.

Ah Inspector Sands you concede! -- tips hat in a g...

2007-09-24T20:05:00.000+01:00

Ah Inspector Sands you concede! -- tips hat in a gentlemanly fashion --

I'm sure NCQ won't be 'gated' in the sense of excluding the outside world. In any case, the best part of NCQ for those that won't be living there will be the amenities on the water front and they certainly will be open to all.

The fortress point is interesting though. It something MQ certainly got wrong - the way the big flats on the waterfront block off all view of it, and are 'protected' from the ajoining council estate and Creek Road by a fleet of lesser flats! The designs for NCQ do seem to attempt to avoid this - there are gaps and 'interchanges' amongst the various blocks. It's meant to reduce the 'fortress' effect. We shall see.

What a lively discussion. The river really is a m...

2007-09-24T16:48:00.000+01:00

What a lively discussion. The river really is a major selling point- even if the shoebox that you buy or rent hasn't got a clear view of it.

Over the next few years the development of the peninsula will continue and thousands more people will move into SE10. The character of the area and of central Greenwich is bound to change- almost certainly to exclude many lower paid people who could previously afford to live in East Greenwich.

Like it or loathe it, the future has been planned.

"Inspector Sands you are a gimp. Millenium Quay is...

2007-09-24T14:45:00.000+01:00

"Inspector Sands you are a gimp. Millenium Quay is a good distance inside Greenwich - you might ask Greenwich Council what they think."

It's in SE8. Greenwich Council controls Deptford from Watergate Street up to the creek, including the old Deptford Power Station site where MQ is now.

In my copy of the London Paper - (and let's face i...

2007-09-24T14:42:00.000+01:00

In my copy of the London Paper - (and let's face it, everything you read in there is set in stone, ahem)there's a fullpage advert which says

"London's new waterside village on its own gated peninsula"

Sounds pretty fortress-like to me. Still - it could just be Estate Agent speak bigging-it-up for investors. I hope so.

I am most interested to find out about the bridge - it would be fab.

--Emerges from dictionary looking up 'ectoplasmati...

2007-09-24T14:38:00.000+01:00

--Emerges from dictionary looking up 'ectoplasmatic'--

1. The Council planning department are the people to talk to about the footbridge. It wasn't included (as far as I understand) as a s106 agreement when NCQ was agreed, but had the status of 'in the plan, but unconfirmed'. It will obviously be expensive as it will need to open to allow the boats to chug along down the Creek.

2. Is it really going to be gated? The waterfront attractions - resturants, bars, studio spaces etc are open. So too the proposed Waitrose. Will it be gated in the same way Millenium Quay is? (i.e. a gate in the road, which you can either walk around or wait for 5 seconds to open as you drive up in your car.)

3. Targetting investors 5 years ahead of the build finishing is just how it goes. These companies wouldn't be able to finance rescuing brown-field rubbish dumps otherwise. It won't have any impact on the type of residents - they will be a mix of owner-occupiers and renters on 1 year leases like everywhere else.

I'm with M32. Ulitmately, I guess, it doesn't matt...

2007-09-24T10:05:00.000+01:00

I'm with M32. Ulitmately, I guess, it doesn't matter who owns them, only who lives in them - and if they are intrested in becoming part of the area then I welcome them with open, ectoplasmatic arms.

Brown field sites WILL be built on. I just wish they weren't built like fortresses.

Personally, I don't believe that someone buying property in London is ever going to lose their shirt. They might miss out short-term, but while we're still short of places for people to live prices will keep on growing.

Where do I sign, Nano, to join the efforts to make the footbridge a reality??

Blimey, this is a popular one, well done Phantom! ...

2007-09-24T09:55:00.000+01:00

Blimey, this is a popular one, well done Phantom!
Personally I don't care if fat cat city types get fleeced by investing in the buy to let market at the wrong time - they will simply have to ask daddy for some more money or wait until next years bonus to buy another one somewhere else. However, the bottom line is that whoever actually ends up living in the flats, sorry ‘apartments’, will be more ‘local’ people with some disposable income (one would assume) which might just encourage local restaurants that it could be viable to offer a quality product and encourage repeat business instead of selling crap to tourists on the understanding that you will never see them again so it doesn't matter. Personally, anything that makes restaurants better in Greenwich is a very good thing indeed. And I’m sorry, but I would like a Waitrose too!

Don't hate the fat cats. Instead take some time t...

2007-09-24T09:23:00.000+01:00

Don't hate the fat cats. Instead take some time today to go into a church and light a candle for them. Anyone daft enough to get involved in this investment opportunity is going to lose their shirt.

You heard it here first.

Inspector Sands you are a gimp. Millenium Quay is ...

2007-09-23T21:53:00.000+01:00

Inspector Sands you are a gimp. Millenium Quay is a good distance inside Greenwich - you might ask Greenwich Council what they think.

A couple of other points.

1. Re the sanctimonious wailing of 'they couldn't do away with the Thames Path could they?!'. Firstly the building of the Millenium Quay estate removed a stinking toxic ex-power station from the path. It's now a rather more pleasant experience, to put it mildly. Secondly, it was those corporate whores from Millenium Quay that most insisted to the developers of New Capital Quay that a footbridge be built from MQ and NCQ, thus enhancing the path (e.g. no diversion around Creek Road). If commentators here were less knee-jerk about rejecting redevelopment, they might get off their lazy conservative asses and join the efforts to make the footbridge a reality.

2. Afforementioned lazy asses have also missed the efforts to have a small museum as part of the waterfront attractions on NCQ, which reflects the history of the Creek. Sigh.

You ever thought of guest editing this blog while ...

2007-09-22T20:25:00.000+01:00

You ever thought of guest editing this blog while the Phantom is away, Inspector?

The good natured way you deal with people who disagree with you, would surely go down a treat.

Yes it does. Because Millennium Quay is not "part ...

2007-09-22T19:15:00.000+01:00

Yes it does. Because Millennium Quay is not "part of Greenwich". It is in Deptford, a place as worthy of your support as Greenwich is.

And if you're happy to jump on a bus or walk a little way to find your supermarkets, then you won't be needing one to help screw up Greenwich town centre, will you?

Living in Greenwich town centre, you could get of...

2007-09-22T16:58:00.000+01:00

Living in Greenwich town centre, you could get off your arse and go to Lewisham, or Surrey Quays, or east Greenwich for your shopping.

Gosh, who'd have guessed I could do that. Thank you for the tip.

Oh, and Millennium Quay's actually in Deptford. There's a small clue in its postcode.

You are full of helpful hints, aren't you? I am well aware which postcode it's in. It doesn't cancel out the point I was trying to make.

Oh, and Millennium Quay's actually in Deptford.The...

2007-09-22T13:22:00.000+01:00

Oh, and Millennium Quay's actually in Deptford.

There's a small clue in its postcode.

Living in Greenwich town centre, you could get off...

2007-09-22T13:21:00.000+01:00

Living in Greenwich town centre, you could get off your arse and go to Lewisham, or Surrey Quays, or east Greenwich for your shopping.

Not everyone wants to spend their lives surrounded by Do As You're Told shopping centres.

I'm a big fan of the blog, but on this occasion I ...

2007-09-21T21:10:00.001+01:00

I'm a big fan of the blog, but on this occasion I don't really agree.

On balance I actually think Capital Quay is a good thing for three reasons:

1 - It's a lot better than what's there at the moment...er nothing! Rather than a bit of wasteland we might as well at least have flats here which bring people into the area...

2 - ...people who by and large do use the local facilties and are part of the community. I mean, come on, we are talking about Greenwich here and not the wilds of Beckton.

I think if you move to this area and shut yourself into the development ignoring what's around you, then you are pretty strange indeed. Everyone I know who lives in the neighbouring millenium quay development certainly feels part of Greenwich and takes advantage of what's on offer.

3 - Most importantly and from a purely selfish point of view I've heard that a Waitrose will be built in Capital Quay (does anyone know this is actually true?).

Living in Greenwich town centre, you basically have the choice of the often (after the day trippers have been) empty shelved M&S, and the truly awful Somerfield.

A proper supermarket within walking distance of the town would be a huge bonus, so if there are going to be amenities that we can benefit from in Capital Quay then I'm all for it being built.

Three years of stirring on Casino Avenue taught me...

2007-09-21T21:10:00.000+01:00

Three years of stirring on Casino Avenue taught me one thing.

One someone is "disappointed" in you, you know you're right :-)

Tee hee. I must be controversial a bit more often....

2007-09-21T17:23:00.000+01:00

Tee hee. I must be controversial a bit more often. It's certainly got everyone talking.