World of Washers

Reader Mail: Cabrio seal failure

2009-07-18T10:43:00.003-04:00

From paw3:

"I hope you have seen my problem on the Cabrio. Of course, it is out of warranty. At 10 minutes left in a cycle, the machine becomes unbalanced and shuts off. No amount of repositioning the clothes will get it work. Finally called a repairman and he tells me, seal is bad, water in motor with rust and it will be over $800 to fix. I am so disappointed as I have always trusted Whirlpool. If you have seen this problem please let me know. I have found after calling 3 repair people that it is very hard to find someone who knows how to work on these things. As far as I am concerned, it is like all the people have said... THIS MACHINE IS A PIECE OF CRAP AND SHOULD NOT BE SOLD ANYMORE. Thanks for the web site. By the way, the repairman was looking for the F51 code and said it did appear at different times during the cyle. Thanks"

My response:

I have heard of this problem. It is not nearly as common as the other problems with these washers, but there are other people out there who have had the same problem.

I think this thread at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum is related to your problem. Check it out. And even though the warranty has expired, I would not hesitate to contact Whirlpool about this (assuming you haven't already). There is no reason the tub seal should have failed already.

Let me know how your call with Whirlpool goes.

~Brad

Reader Mail: A Lesson in Chemistry Updated

2009-07-11T18:09:00.000-04:00

From George:

"Just found your blog tonight after buying a GE front loader set tonight to replace my Kenmore (Whirlpool) HE3 Elite that self destructed this week after almost six years of use. The spider assembly that holds the drive shaft to the basket apparently is made of aluminum and corrodes in the presence of detergent. When it blew at 900 RPM it took out the drum and the water pump. Found several web pages where the same thing has happened to others. As you seem to know, neither Sears nor Whirlpool seems to have any sort of failure analysis department or any interest in possible design problems. When I called the Whirlpool Corporate office in Michigan they told me that they have no access to their Engineering or Production departments. Making a critical part out of a reactive metal is just stupid from an engineering point of view. I could not find anyone that would tell me if this part is common to some or all of their brands of washers. I’ll send you picture of my corroded basket for giggles.

"Keep up the good work"

George then includes the picture below.

George then follows up with another email:

"Brad,

"I have an update for you. I sent an Email to Whirlpools CEO Mr. Fettig and to my great surprise he had some one call me back this week. They were very interested in my photos of the damage. I got a call back telling me that the damage was caused by the reaction of chlorine on the metal. Who knew that a washer might be exposed to chlorine?!! They said that most front loader manufacturers have had this problem in the past and that they are now using a different alloy to make the spider assembly. I got an apology for the trouble I’ve had and was offered a free countertop appliance from their Kitchenaid line of products. None of which I really need or want. They thanked me for my concerns about their products and assured me that they follow up on all customer complaints. I did mention the trouble I had trying to find someone at Whirlpool customer service that had any interest or knowledge that would help me figure out what happened to my machine. I was told that Whirlpool no longer has a technical help line due to liability issues. I guess if I hurt myself repairing a machine following their techs advice, they would be worried I would sue them. I made sure to let them know that because I did not get a timely reply to my questions I went out a bought a GE laundry pair hoping that it used a different spider assembly.

"So I guess they do have a group that checks out issues but it takes a lot of time frustration to find them. I should not have to contact the CEO of a company to get action on a product issue."

I decided to look into this a bit further and was surprised that I had not heard of this problem before. I was also surprised that some engineer (or, evidently, several) thought it a good idea to mate stainless steel and aluminum together for prolonged submersion in detergent and chlorine bleach solutions.

I found the following video on YouTube made by a gentleman who deconstructs his wrecked Frigidaire washer. This video provides a wonderful insight into how crappy some products are manufactured.

UPDATE 7/11/09: I was curious about this issue, so I emailed Electrolux with questions regarding the spider assemblies of Frigidaire and Electrolux washer. A day later, I got a response (the first I have ever received from Electrolux) saying "The material for the spider was changed to a new alloy in 2004. We do not have problems with failure of these parts."

So there you go. If you buy a Frigidaire or Electrolux frontload washer, you can rest assured the washer will not self-destruct due to galvanic corrosion caused by two dissimilar metals being mated together.

Now to see if Whirlpool and others will respond...

Reader Mail: F1 on Maytag Bravos rears it's ugly head

2009-07-08T18:03:00.001-04:00

From Melissa:

Dear Brad,

First of all I have to tell you that your blog has been a tremendous help in getting to the bottom of the pesky F1 code I have been getting on my Maytag Bravos machine. I called a for a repair last week and I wish I would have found your blog before he came. He told me that the cause of the F1 code was partially the fact that I was not using h/e detergent, I make my own powder formula of borax, washing soda and fels naptha, but also the fact that I was using too much and the soap was not completely cleaning out of the lines. The build up was causing the F1 code, he said he saw this with people using too much h/e detergents also. He suggested running more hot water through the lines and using less soap. I have done along with cleaning with vinegar and store bought washing machine cleaner for the past week and its still coding. That was when I went searching for answers and found your blog. My first question is what causes this code? Is it bad manufacturing or my using the wrong/too much detergent? Can it clear itself or does it need to be repaired? What are the consequences of not getting it repaired, will it cause worse damage to the machine? This code only comes up on the first load of the day. If I have multiple loads the other loads usually don't code.

Thanks for your help and I look forward to hearing back from you to get an idea of what I should do next regarding this problems.

Sincerely,
Melissa

My response:

Melissa,

It is possible that the F1 code was caused by your laundry habits (detergent), but I think that is unlikely. Too many of these machines have problems with the F1 error code. There is a known problem with the Oasis / Cabrio / Bravos machines. However, I thought that the Bravos had been introduced by the time Whirlpool was aware of these problems, and would have had them sorted out. Silly me.

I do not know if changing your habits will fix the problem. I would try to run a few loads of towels with just water (no detergent or anything) to try and flush out any excess detergent residue you may have. I don't know if you are able to set your own water level on this machine, but if you are, I would just run an empty load or two. The objective in doing this is to see what the machine does. If the machine continues to throw the code even after you have run some empty loads to rid the machine of detergent build-up, then the problem is not your detergent.

You did not say whether the machine is still under warranty. If it is, I would find another Maytag servicer in your area. The guy who has been out there has already made up his mind that the problem is with you, not the machine. If it is no longer under warranty, call the Maytag customer service line and explain the situation. Be firm, but be polite. Drop the words "recall" and "class action lawsuit" and see what they say. I suspect they will agree to fix the problem.

Let me know what happens. This is not a problem you should have to live with. Thanks for writing!

~Brad

Soap nuts anyone?

2009-07-04T10:15:00.003-04:00

I had heard about soap nuts some time ago while bouncing around on the GardenWeb Laundry Forum. I looked into them a little bit, but didn't really think too much more about them. Until this morning.

I pulled a clean shirt from my closet, put it on, and was overcome with the scent of laundry detergent. Now, I do not use a lot of detergent in my wash. I actually use less than the recommended amount for a small/light load, even when I am doing a full load in the large 3.76 cf Dexter 400 washer. Despite the miserly amount of detergent I use, my clothes are still saturated with the perfumes added to the detergent.

That got me thinking about soap nuts. After doing some research into soap nuts, I found that they are 100% natural. The grow on the tree, fall on the ground, are gathered and dried for distribution. That's it. Nothing is added.

Ever wonder what is in commercial laundry detergent? So did I, and I did not have much luck finding an answer. You can look here for more information on what is in laundry detergent, and why manufacturers are not putting that information on the labels.

Another benefit of soap nuts? They are truly "green". Little to no plastic packaging to fill out landfills. No toxic by-products in manufacturing or wastewater. Spent nuts can be tossed in the trash (completely biodegradable) or added to your compost.

Soap nuts are simple. You place four or five of the nuts into a muslin bag, tie the bag shut, and toss the bag in with your laundry. Just like any other detergent (commercial or natural), the surfacants will not activate or release properly in cold water, so you should make a soap nuts liquid for use in cold water washes. Instructions to do so are found here.

A brief crash course in soap nuts from the information I have been to find on the 'net:

* Product of the shrub or small tree Sapindus
* Contain saponins, a natural surfacant and also naturally antimicrobial
* Hard outer shell with fruit inside
* Soaking in water releases the saponins

More information about soap nuts can be found at the following sites:

Tiny Choices
Exeterra
Green Home

If you are ready to take the plunge and truly try something different, then head on over to Amazon pick up some soap nuts. If you decide to try them, let me know what you think. Likewise, if you currently use soap nuts, leave a comment below and let me know your experience!

Reader Mail: Amana frontload washer

2009-07-01T08:00:00.000-04:00

From Sherry:

Hey Brad,

I've been reading some of your blog on the new 'fangled' front load washers. I was thinking of buying the Amana even before I stumbled upon your blog, and now am even more interested. But I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping you can answer:

(1) is the Amana (3.5 cu ft) big enough to effectively clean a king-size bed comforter? (all the appliance sales people and an internet appl repair guy said I would need at least a 4.0 cu ft… do you agree? I was hoping to find something more moderately priced, such as the Amana, but that can handle large bulky items like king-size comforters and dog beds)

(2) why do you comment that it's necessary to have an internal water heater in front-load washers? (just wondering since the Amana doesn't have one, but all the consumer reviews state it cleans great).

Oh, and thanks for the price 'heads up' on the Amana -- I was going to order it from Sears, but can save over $100 by buying it from Home Depot… and they have free home delivery!! Excellent!

Thanks for your time!
Sherry

Hi Sherry!

I saw your comment before I turned in last night, took the time to write a long reply, and then my computer decided to cop an attitude and freeze up on me when I hit the "submit" button. I was not happy.

I had a nice, long-winded answer to your first question regarding capacity when I realized I sounded like an idiot. So I'll just say that 3.5cf would probably be pushing it for a king-size comforter. It will mostly depend on how thick your comforters are. I had many customers come into the store dragging a Hefty bag with a comforter stuffed into it to see how capacities really stacked up. Give it a shot and see what you think!

In regards to internal water heaters, I should probably revise my statements that they are a must-have in frontload washers. Clearly, they are not required. They are very useful, though.

There is a great post in the FAQ over at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum about the virtues of the internal water heater. The best benefit to me is the fact that the internal water heater can generate and maintain much hotter wash temperatures than a machine without. This is especially beneficial on whites. I never used bleach in my Samsung with the water heater, and they always came out white white white!

I think there are many laundry nerds (myself included) who tend to overthink laundry and washing machines. An internal water heater definitely is not required to get a good wash. I would say that a washer with a heater will outperform one without, especially when it comes to very stubborn stains. But that is not to say a washer without a heater will not do what it is supposed to do: clean your clothes.

Thank you for writing!

~Brad

*Note: After reading my response to Sherry, I realized the keywords in her question regarding capacity were "effectively clean". I should have pointed out that even though you can really stuff a frontload washer full, the machine will not function properly if you have to lean against the door to get it shut. You need to leave a fist-sized space at the top. The clothes will compress slightly when the load is saturated, but you still want to be sure you leave enough room for the clothes to actually tumble, not just spin around in circles with the rotation of the drum.

Sears takes an idea from the car companies

2009-06-30T18:28:00.003-04:00

From the Associated Press:

"HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill. (AP) — Sears said Tuesday that it plans to offer a buyer protection program for its home appliances to help consumers who lose their jobs during the recession.

"The free program, which starts Monday and runs through Aug. 1, covers appliance purchases of more than $399 made on a Sears card by cardholders who lose their job. Cardholders must have held a full-time job for at least 60 days when the appliance was purchased.

"If a customer loses his or her job, the program will credit 1/12th of the purchase price to the account for each month the cardholder is out of work. If the person is still out of work one year after the purchase, he or she will receive an account credit for what's left of the purchase amount and get to keep the appliance without any further payment obligations."

I'm not too sure that I have much of an opinion on this. My first thought was that almost every credit card now offers such a plan for an additional monthly fee, usually around $.94 for every $100 on the balance or so. But plans like that will usually only make the minimum monthly payment, which of course will not pay off the balance within a year.

I am pretty anti-Sears on this blog, but I have to give them credit where credit is due. Of course, this is pretty indicative of just how bad things are right now. I am interested to see if the others (Lowes, Home Depot, et al.) will follow suit.

Getting the most bang for your buck: frontload washers

2009-06-28T13:56:00.006-04:00

Continuing on the previous post, I want to look at the frontload washers that will give you the best bang for your buck. This is not a post about which washer is the best, or which washer is the coolest. This post is simply about which frontload washers give you the most for your money.

As you are looking through the following list, you will notice several commonalities among all machines.

Capacity: all are at least 3.5cf IEC, with the largest coming in at 4.1cf. I do not put a whole lot of stock in capacity measurements. Several years ago, when the Whirlpool Duet came out, they advertised their 3.7cf drum could hold sixteen pairs of jeans. The Whirlpool Duet on this list offers a 4.1cf drum (smaller baffles, I am guessing), and they still tout the ability to wash sixteen pairs of jeans. Uhm... okay.

Spin speed: all of the washers on the list below offer a max spin speed of at least 1,000 rpm. These higher spin speeds simply extract more water for faster drying times.

Efficiency: all of these washers are EnergyStar qualified.

Water heater: most of these washers, with the exception of the Amana, offer an internal water heater. An internal water is almost a must in a frontload washer, although for Amana's crazy-low price, I'd be willing to let that feature go.

Price: all retail for a grand or less.

When looking through this list, keep in mind that these washers are at the middle or lower end of each manufacturer's lineup. There are many other washers available; I just think these offer the best bang for the buck. Also, the prices below are accurate as of 6/28/09. No doubt they will change.

Although I did not put the top load washers in any particular order, I am putting this list in order of least to greatest value (IMHO, of course). Of course, I think all of these washers are tremendous values.

GE WCVH6800JWW

Lowes: $798
Home Depot: $719
Sears: $708
US Appliance: $689
Best Buy: $679.99

Capacity: 4.0cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1100rpm

These washers came about four years ago to mixed reviews. GE had a problem with the rubber door boot tearing, and they have assured me that the problem has been fixed in the new models of washers. These washers are made in China by Little Swan, which I believe is a subsidiary of GE.

Maytag MHWZ600TW

Home Depot: $718
US Appliance: $799
hhgregg: $808
Sears: $723
Lowes: $798
Best Buy: $849

Capacity: 3.7cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

I believe the EpicZ is based off of the older KitchenAid Ensemble washer from a few years ago, which was a step-up from the Whirlpool Duet. I tried to confirm this, along with a few other questions, with Whirlpool PR, but they don't seem to like me too well and do not respond to my inquiries.

Whereas the Whirlpool Duet washers are (or were?) made in Germany, I believe the EpicZ is made in Mexico. I tried to find the answer to this question via Google, but all I could find out was that Jay-Z is close to a deal with Epic Records. Oh well.

Whirlpool WFW9400SW

Lowes: $998
AJ Madison: $909
Sears: $808 (sale price)
hhgregg: $898

Capacity: 4.1cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

One neat feature of the Whirlpool Duet is what they call Direct Inject Wash System. At the start of the wash cycle, the machine shoots a concentration of detergent and water into the machine to saturate the clothes. This is supposed to eliminate the need for pretreating.

Amana NFW7200TW

AJ Madison: $629
Sears: $586.49
Home Depot: $489.60 w/ free shipping thru 7/8 ($544 regular)

Capacity: 3.5cf
Internal Water Heater: no
Max Spin Speed: 1000rpm

Additional features of note: direct drive motor (no belts, pulleys, transmission), antimicrobial protection built into the rubber door seal.

The deal Home Depot has going on this machine makes it an absolute steal. This is a good, basic washer that offers a tremendous bang for the buck. The machine is built by Samsung for the Amana brand (owned by Whirlpool). I would not think twice about buying this machine.

LG WM0642HW

Sears: $808
Best Buy: $810
US Appliance: $810
hhgregg: $844
Home Depot: $899

Capacity: 4.0cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

Additional features of note: rear control, direct drive motor (no belts, pulleys, transmission), better warranty (one year parts/labor; additional 1 year parts on the control board; additional 6 years parts on the motor).

I've said for a while that this washer is the best value in frontload washers on the market. At every site that offers product reviews, you will find that the majority of owners rate this machine very well.

Samsung WF328AAW

Lowes: $898
Best Buy: $720
AJ Madison: $929
Sears: $893

Capacity: 4.0cf
Internal Water Heater: yes
Max Spin Speed: 1200rpm

Additional features of note: Vibration Reduction Technology (VRT) helps to reduce washer vibration when operating at high spin speeds; direct drive motor (no belts, pulleys, transmission); better warranty (one year parts/labor, additional 1 year parts on the control board, additional 5 years parts on the motor). This washer also offers a SilverCare feature. According to Samsung, silver ions are released into the wash water to help to sanitize, even on cold water washes. All indications are that this feature actually does work. The uncertainty, however, comes in the unknown environmental impacts of dumping silver ions into waste water.

I've selected this washer as my Best Value for the simple fact that it offers a couple additional features the LG does not in VRT and SilverCare.

Getting the most bang for your buck

2009-06-28T08:00:00.002-04:00

I was thinking today about the state of the economy. I live in a county that is experiencing an unemployment rate of 17%. My own employment future is uncertain as the company I work for is drastically trimming fat to cope with the downward spiral in sales. Across the country, consumers are snapping shut their purses and wallets, drawing back their spending. And while sales of durable goods are in the toilet, people still need to replace broken washing machines.

So what if you need to buy a washing machine, but you don't want to spend over a grand for a bling machine? How do you get the most bang for the buck? That's what I will focus on in the next few posts, starting with top load washers.

To start with, I am going to completely ignore high-efficiency top load washers. I just don't see these machines as being described as a "value". The propensity for expensive repairs and mediocre wash results, among other issues, are just too great.

So in looking for the best value in top load washers, what criteria am I using?

One: capacity. Capacities in top load washers vary in size from 2.5 to 3.5 cubic feet. All of the washers on this list vary from 3.3 to 3.5 cf. (On a side note, you may notice that Whirlpool/Maytag offer 3.2 and 3.5 cf drums. The drums are exactly the same size; the difference comes in the size of the agitator.)

Two: reliability/service. This area can be somewhat a crap shoot. Whirlpool washers are simple and relatively dependable, and are supported by a vast network of service providers. GE has greatly improved reliability in their top load washers through the years, and they also offer and extensive support network. Speed Queen simply offers the best-built machine, backed by the most extensive warranty, on the market.

Three: features/benefits. When talking about features in these washers, we're not talking about extreme spin speeds or miserly water usage, fancy colors or LED control boards. We're talking about the basics: adjustable water levels, multiple water temperature, a moderate level of cycle selections, maybe an extra rinse cycle. That's it.

Please note that the prices listed below are subject to change, and are accurate as of 6/27/09.

Whirlpool WTW5200VQ

Best Buy: $450
Lowes: $448
Sears: $408
US Appliance: $389

Drum Material: Porcelain on steel
Number of Speed Combination: 2
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 10
Extra Rinse: Yes
Number of Temperatures: 3
Hot/Cold, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 2

Maytag MVWC400VW

Home Depot: $449.10
Lowes: $498
Sears: $450.49
hhgregg: $499.97
US Appliance: $389

Drum Material: Porcelain on steel
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 12
Extra Rinse: Yes
Number of Temperatures: 4
Hot/Cold, Warm/Warm, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 3

GE WDRR2500KWW

Best Buy: $450
Home Depot: $404.10
hhgregg: $449.97

Drum Material: Stainless steel
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 14
Extra Rinse: Yes
Number of Temperatures: 3
Hot/Cold, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 3

Speed Queen AWN412

*Not available at any big box stores. Check independent retailers in your area. Online prices varying from $600 to $679.

Drum Material: Stainless steel
Bleach Dispenser: Yes
Number of Cycles: 8
Extra Rinse: No
Number of Temperatures: 3
Hot/Cold, Warm/Cold, Cold/Cold
Water Levels: 4

From looking at the above, you can see that there are not really any major differences between those machines. They all offer good capacity. They all offer porcelain or stainless steel wash baskets. The offer a fair amount of flexibility on cycles and wash temperatures and water levels.

This is why, when I in the appliance biz, I grew very exasperated with shoppers that made picking out a washing machine a flippin' ordeal. It is not that difficult!

1) Do not buy Frigidaire. (They're cheap crap.)
2) Do not buy from Sears. (Their service sucks.)
3) Start with the washers above and go from there.

Some of you may question why I put Speed Queen on this list. Remember, I wrote this with an eye towards value, and Speed Queen washers, with their tremendous durability and exceptional warranty, offer a very high level of value. I advise you to give Speed Queen a look if you are in the market for a top load washer.

Are you using too much detergent?

2009-06-27T13:40:00.003-04:00

There is an interesting article over at ConsumerReports.org regarding laundry detergents and the tendency of consumers to overdose. The article is based on the fact that many of the caps on liquid detergents are difficult to read. I would go even further to say that the recommended dosages are excessive.

The article has several good points, but I agree mostly with the following:

"Since some of the tested detergents cost as much as 65 cents per load, using too much cleaner could become expensive. Overdosing can also cause soap deposits and lint to form inside your washing machine, which, say some manufacturers, might contribute to mold and odors. It could also plug or restrict ports or filters, says Chris Zeisler, an appliance-repair expert at RepairClinic.com, who adds that those deposits could result in mechanical failure. And for some high-efficiency washers, overdosing can produce excessive suds and lead to extended wash cycles as the machine tries to remove the soap."

I do my laundry at a local laundromat. Frontload Wascomat washers and Tide 2x HE. The first time I used the Tide, I used a half cap on a huge load. The suds were tremendous. There were even suds left at the end of the cycle. I have since dialed back the dosage to just under the dosage recommended for a light/small load. The results are fine, and the suds are not out of control.

Check out the full article at ConsumerReports.org.

Reader Mail: Basic top load washer?

2009-06-21T18:30:00.002-04:00

Charisse writes:

"Brad,

I found your blog tonight and I was hoping to get your opinion on choosing a new washer. Our 5 yr old Kenmore 80 is on it's last legs... not willing to pay the $400+ to get a new transmission. Repairman told me that we've been overloading our machine (perhaps he is right).

"Sears guys tried to sell me the Kenmore Oasis TL... feel like I dodged a bullet after reading your blog.

"Here are my requirements:

1. I average one load/day as we are a family of 5.
2. Laundry is one 2nd floor behind a little door, so must be TL, not FL.
3. Energy/water efficiency not high priorities.
4. Sorting laudry is not my strong suit as I have 3 boys. Everything gets thrown in together.

"Thanks in advance."
-CML

Charisse,

Thank you for writing!

You have asked a great question, and it is one that is not addressed too frequently on my blog. I tend to have a focus on the high-priced, high-tech, high-efficiency frontload washers. I don't really focus too much on what many people, such as yourself, are looking for: a basic top load washer.

I know that shopping for any washing machine can be daunting. There are so many different brands, different styles, different price points, different features, different retailers. But I think when you get down to the brass tacks, a decision can quickly be made via the process of elimination.

In the basic top load washer category, I have only two recommendations: Whirlpool (or rebranded Whirlpool design, such as your Kenmore or Maytag) or Speed Queen.

First, Whirlpool. Despite the fact that Whirlpool, like any other corporation, has moved some production to Mexico, they still maintain a tremendous manufacturing presence in the good ol' U.S. To my knowledge, all Whirlpool top load washers and companion dryers are made in Clyde and Marion, Ohio. They pay employees at these plants well, and are still able to produce a tremendous volume of laundry appliances. That speaks volumes to the efficiency of their operations. Kudos to Whirlpool for continuing to invest in the workforce of Ohio, the state I call home.

So what of Whirlpool washers? They make good washers of proven design that are relatively dependable, affordable, and easy to service. Pretty much everywhere you go in the country, there will be an authorized Whirlpool service provider nearby. The washers offer good capacity and a dual-action agitator that does a fine job of moving the clothes through the water, provided the washer is not overloaded.

And what of Speed Queen? This is one of the oldest names in laundry, and is simply the best-built top load washer on the market. They are made in Wisconsin, and the company has adopted a philosophy of keeping things simple in their machines. No computer boards, no fancy chimes, just a basic washing machine that does the job and is built like a tank.

Speed Queen washers are so well-built that the company offers the best warranty in the business: a full three year (parts and labor) on the entire machine. They also warranty the motor and the cabinet for an addition two years (parts only). And beyond the original three year warranty, the transmission is covered for an additional seven years (parts only). The stainless steel wash basket and outer tub are covered for life. No other company, Whirlpool included, stands behind their products like Speed Queen.

So there are my recommendations for top load washers. I firmly believe that if you select a washer from either of these brands, all of your needs will be met. Expect to spend around $400 for a well-equipped Whirlpool washer; $500 for Speed Queen.

Reader Mail: Sears letter on the Oasis

2009-04-07T18:38:00.005-04:00

Well, it looks like Sears has finally decided they can't ignore the elephant in the room any longer and are addressing the problems with the Oasis HE washers. It will be interesting to see if Whirlpool follows suit.

If you haven't seen the letter that has gone out to some owners of these machines, you can check it out below. My thanks to Rick for sending me a copy.

If you have received this letter, let me know how it goes!

Kenmore Oasis Class Action Lawsuit?

2009-03-15T16:44:00.003-04:00

For some time, I have been getting visitors to my blog as a result of Google searches referencing a class action lawsuit for the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos machines. I have no idea what is taking place in different parts of the country in regard to legal action on the basis of the f51 error codes.

I do, however, know of at least on firm (I've no doubt there are probably many more) that is investigating these problems in the Kenmore Oasis washers. More information can be found at this site: Kenmore Oasis Class Action Investigation.

If any of you contact this firm, let me know what happens.

Reader Mail: Pam's washer bit the dust!

2009-03-10T21:17:00.001-04:00

Pam writes:

Hi Brad,

While I knew the day was coming, our conventional washer crapped out on Sunday. After searching the internet for hours that night I was relieved to find some straight forward, easy to read, and informative opinions on washers. Thank you as well for the links to other review sites.

I was strongly leaning towards the LG WM0642HM until I couldn't find it on any Canadian store websites. Nor could I find the Maytag Neptune (unless the panic is setting in and I just can't find them). I'm afraid the immediate need to replace our washer is going to lead to a bad buy (this will probably be bought tonight, if not now we won't have time to look until next week).

I don't want anything fancy, just something that gets clothes clean, is reliable and can handle the large amount of laundry (3 boys and a small massage business worth of sheets).

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Pam

My response:

Hi Pam! Thank you for visiting and taking the time to write.

I don't know exactly how different the appliances offerings are in your neck of the woods. I took a look at Canadian Appliance Source, and they do have the LG 0642 on the website. They also have the Maytag Epic listed at $999, which is a heckuva buy for you considering it's going for the same price down here. So those are available in Canada; it's just a question of where to find them in relation to your area.

The site also lists the Amana washer that I have been bragging up. This model is a tremendous bang for the buck.

If you are set on a frontload washer, then I would not hesitate to recommend a washer built by Samsung or LG. Both brands are very popular and offer a lot of performance for the dollar. There is also the fact that LG and Samsung washers feature a direct drive motor. It is simply a simpler design, and less prone to failure.

Despite the amount of Whirlpool bashing I exercise on my blog, I do like their frontload washers (although the Duet Sport is a bit iffy). The Maytag I have linked above (made by Whirlpool) offers a pretty good bang for the buck. Good capacity, good spin speed, and an internal water heater!

I tend to advise people to stay away from most high-efficiency top load washers (such as the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos washers) and some models made by Frigidaire. But I think if you can hunt down the LG or the Maytag, you will definitely get what you need.

Please let me know if you have any more questions.

Brad

Amana frontloader at Home Depot is a spectacular deal!

2009-03-09T18:58:00.000-04:00

A couple weeks ago, I wrote a post about how Amana offers a frontload washer and dryer that is a tremendous value. If you look around online, you will find sellers offering the washer for anywhere from $600 to $800. Myself, I would pay $800 for this washer. Like I said in the other post, it sucks that the washer does not have an internal water heater, but this washer offers a lot of bang for the buck.

So yeah, I would not hesitate to drop $800 for this washer. Some sellers are offering it for $600, and that is a tremendous bargain.

What Home Depot is doing with this washer, though, defies belief. I do not know how long this special is going on, but Home Depot is offering the washer and electric dryer for $449.10 each. (The website refers to this price as an Internet special, so I am not sure if it is available in stores). That means for $900, you can get an Amana frontload washer and electric dryer (made by Samsung). That is an exceptional deal. You can spend that much on a middle of the line top load washer set!

Like I said, I have no idea how long this is going on, but you can head on over to Home Depot to check out this deal.

Now, I'm a major proponent of buying locally and buying from the little guys, but I guess we all have our price, right? Take my word for it: this is a fantastic offer.

Update: Okay, party's over. Dammit, and I didn't even get this washer for myself! The price is now listed as $538.20 each on the Home Depot website. Hey, it's still a great price on a frontload washer set. Not as good as it was, but still a very good buy.

Fisher & Paykel dying?

2009-03-09T12:00:00.001-04:00

I've long been an advocate for Fisher & Paykel washers. Numerous times I have stated that the only top load washers I would recommend anyone buy be Speed Queen and Fisher & Paykel. Unfortunately, I am going to have to stop making that recommendation.

The problems with the latest line of AquaSmart washers is many, mostly centered around the fact that they consistently blow control boards. Given the fact that modern appliances are heavily computerized, a blown board renders an appliance as useful as a paper weight.

Home Expo, the high-end division of Home Depot, has shuttered their doors. Expo served as one major arm of Fisher & Paykel retail distribution. The company is also being shut out of Lowes. While firm numbers are not available, I would imagine Lowes alone counted for a very large percentage of Fisher & Paykel's North American sales.

The Clyde, Ohio, washer factory is to be closed in July and production sent across the river to Mexico.

The company's balance sheet is weighted down with around half a billion dollars in debt. This is an increase from $16 million just five years ago.

An interesting interview with F&P chairman Gary Paykel can be found here. The interview raises an interesting spectre: the possibility of a large competitor swooping in to take over the company. Imagine F&P coming under control of the ChiComms in the form of Haier.

Maybe all of the above is just circumstantial, and not really enough to stop recommending their products. However, their AquaSmart washers have problems (as do the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos washer, with technology licensed from F&P; coincidence?). The top load dryers have a persistent bearing problem. And the company has reduced their very good 2-year warranty to one year, putting them on par with Whirlpool, Frigidaire, and all the rest of the appliances on the market.

I do like to gamble. But $800 is a lot of money to me, far too much for gambling. So I would stay away from Fisher & Paykel for the time being. And I sincerely hope they get their house in order.

Charlie's Soap: superb value, superb soap

2009-03-08T14:43:00.004-04:00

Have you ever put on a t-shirt or other garment and notice that the item kinda reeks? Have you ever done a load of wash only to pull the clothes out of the dryer to find a stain did not come out of your favorite pants? Do your clothes feel stiff and scratchy, and can you see a mass of suds in the drum even during the final rinse?

If you answered "yes" to any of the questions above, then your laundry detergent sucks.

I have used Charlie's Soap in the past, and I was very satisfied not only with how it cleaned, but also how my clothes felt afterward. I do not use fabric softener for the simple fact that 1) it's disgusting, and 2) it gunks up washing machines. When I used Charlie's Soap, my clothes came out noticeable softer. Not quite as as soft as if I had used fabric softener, but pretty close.

There was also another noticeable difference: my clothes smelled clean. My clothes didn't smell like I had been frolicking in a field of lilacs.

One bag of Charlie's Soap will clean about 80 loads. The most you will need to use on a large load is one tablespoon. Compare that to some of the brands you get at Wal-Mart. Why the difference? Charlie's Soap is just that: soap. No fillers, do perfumes, no crap.

You can find more information about Charlie's Soap by going straight to the source.

There are a slew of comments at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum about Charlie's Soap.

Or if you just want to take my word for it, click below and order some for yourself.

Reader Mail: F1 error code on Kenmore Oasis

2009-03-05T18:05:00.005-05:00

Darrell writes:

Brad,

I am new to this online blog stuff, so I figured an email would be best. I own a Kenmore Elite Oasis washer Model #110.27042602. Everytime we try to use the washer we get error code F1 flashing. This happens withins seconds of the machine first starting to fill and about ten times thereafter until enough water gets into the tub for balance, I assume. We have started pouring about 2 gallons of water onto the clothes in the tub by hand before starting the machine which usually works. About half the time the machine stops again between wash and rinse cycle as it starts to fill with water again.

In my online research, I guess its good we don't have error code F51, but this is a pain and 1 year warranty has passed. It appears I may need to get a new Machine Motor Control Assembly. Any thoughts????

Thank you,
Darrell S.

Darrell,

I'm probably not going to tell you anything you don't already know. You know you may have to replace the motor control assembly, so you have done your due diligence.

I found a thread related to your problem at the "Samurai Appliance Repair Forums" at ApplianceGuru.com. That link will take you to the discussion, in case you haven't already read it. The poster described a situation identical to yours, and I have also read of this problem at other sites on the web.

Contained within that thread is a link to a Service Matters (Whirlpool Corp.) tech sheet related to the F1 error code. This is the document any qualified servicer will refer to when addressing your problem. Here is a link to that sheet in case you want to have it on hand in the event of a service call.

The tech sheet calls to replace the control, but only after three other tests have been conducted. Everything I have read indicates the control will be replaced the vast majority of the time. I am not a technician, but I would say there really is no way around that.

Please keep in mind that this sheet applies to specific models and serial numbers within the Whirlpool line. There may be a separate sheet for your washer, but I imagine the end result is the same.

The million dollar question is how much will such a repair cost. I am seeing prices ranging from $150 to $200 just for the part. With labor, you will probably have at least $300 invested in this repair. I would encourage you to contact Whirlpool at 866-769-7260. I have read instances of other owners receiving satisfactory service in out-of-warranty situations via this number. Whirlpool knows these washers are crap, so they no doubt have a scripted procedure in place to deal with these situations. Be firm, but also be polite. Maybe drop the word "recall" and see what happens.

Let me know how it goes.

Edit 3/8/09: I realized today that I was giving him some useless advice. His washer is a Kenmore, and I advised him to contact Whirlpool. While Whirlpool is the manufacturer of the Kenmore Oasis, Darrell would need to go through Sears directly in order to get any satisfaction. Granted, both companies utilize A&E Factory Service on the service arm of the business, but the proper channels would still need to be followed. My apologies for any confusion.

~ Brad

Sears notches a win in dryer suit

2009-03-04T21:43:00.004-05:00

I came across an interesting story at consumeraffairs.com:

Kenmore Dryer Suit Hung Out to Dry

"The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals struck a blow to consumer class actions in an opinion reversing class certification for a lawsuit involving Kenmore clothes dryers.

"The suit, filed on behalf of plaintiffs in 28 states and the District of Columbia, alleged that Sears deceived customers by imprinting the words “stainless steel” on the outside of the dryers even though part of the drum, located entirely inside the dryer, was made of ceramic-coated, rather than stainless, steel.

"The lead plaintiff, Steven Thorogood of Tennessee, alleged that the non-stainless section of his drum rusted and stained his clothes."

The judge presiding over the case, Judge Richard Posner, seemed to dismiss the suit on a legal basis. However, he also rebukes the merits of the plaintiff's claims, chief among them being that Sears lied about the drum being made of stainless steel, and that deception resulted in rusting which damaged his clothes.

"Posner noted that rust stains are not a common problem among dryer owners, and that few people buy stainless appliances to prevent such stains."

That may be true. Nobody buys a stainless steel range with the expectation that the stainless steel will not rust. However, that is not the case with dryers containing a stainless steel drum. If you walk into any appliance store in the country and ask a salesperson the advantage of having a stainless steel drum in the dryer, 100% of them will tell you it will not rust, and therefore ruin your clothes.

It shouldn't matter that Sears did not advertise that the drum will not rust; the fact that the drum is stainless steel makes this implied. In addition, why would every salesperson claim that a stainless steel drum will resist rust? Because the manufacturers and management tell them to claim this as a benefit. And if the drum isn't even made entirely of stainless steel when the claim is made that it is, that is even more deceptive.

The lowdown on capacity: dryers

2009-03-03T21:41:00.007-05:00

Unless your dryer suddenly dies and you are in need of a new one, they are pretty much an afterthought. I have seen people agonize over picking out a washing machine, but the only thought they really put into the dryer whether it's gas or electric. That's because when a consumer buys a washer, they usually also buy the dryer so they will have a matching set.

I remember this couple who came into the store one day shopping for washers. The husband just kind of stood there with his hands in his pockets while his wife looked at all of the washers we had on display. She turned the dials, lifted the lids, and asked all the right questions. He stood motionless, silent except for the occasional sigh. She'd ask him a question every once in a while, just to make him think his opinion mattered, and he'd look at her like she was speaking Klingonese.

After about two hours, she had finally zeroed in on a model she wanted. Of course, then she had to determine what color she wanted. (Damn you, LG!) Once that was out of the way, we sat down to write up the order. And that's when he finally broke his silence.

"What's your best price?"

"Is that the best you can do?"

"You know I could just take your price over to Best Buy and they'll just beat you."

"How's business been? You could probably really use this sale, couldn't you?" (I told the asshole I didn't work on commission. Ha! I really effing hate people sometimes.)

We finally agreed on a price. It was my original price, but I had thrown in three tubs of pretty good detergent.

Just then the wife piped with, "Oh, and we'll need the dryer to be electric."

"Dryer?" the husband replied, and then he looked right at me with an almost maniacal look of urgency and said, "Six tubs! I want six tubs of detergent!"

Anyway, the point of my post wasn't that people can be real douchebags sometimes, although it quickly degenerated into just that. My point was that when it comes to the dryer, people don't really put a whole lot of thought into the decision. They'll decide on a washer, but how they arrive at that decision does not usually involve the dryer.

Believe it or not, dryer capacity is important. When it comes to the dryer, the size of the drum will not so much effect how much laundry you can do at once. After all, you are only going to put into the dryer what you put into the washer. However, the size of the dryer will have an effect on what condition the clothes are in when they come out of it.

Generally speaking, you want the dryer to be twice as large as the washer. So for a 3.2cf capacity washer, you want a dryer to be at least 6.4cf. As you get into the bigger washers, that guideline can be more difficult to meet as the dryer sizes have not kept up with washer sizes. For instance, Electrolux offers a 4.7cf washer, while the companion dryer is "only" 8.0cf, instead of 9.4cf.

A larger dryer will provide the following benefits:

* less pilling: The clothes have more room to spread out so the fabric does not rub together so much throughout the cycle

* less wrinkling: Again, more room equals more room for the clothes to spread out

* faster dry times: More room equals more airflow and that equates to faster dry times

* more even drying: Yep, you guessed it. A larger drum will provide more room for the clothes to spread out while tumbling, and that will allow the items to dry more consistently (ie, the clothes won't be a massive ball with a big wet spot in the center).

So yes, dryer capacity is important. And that's always why I've hated Frigidaire dryers. Tiny little boxes with crappy airflow that really just tumble the clothes and bake them dry. And then there's that damn thing at the top of the drum, above the door, that clothes always seem to snag on.

Yeah. Frigidaire dryers really kinda suck.

The lowdown on capacity: frontload washers

2009-03-01T17:21:00.003-05:00

If determining the capacity in top load washers that is right for you is confusing, then doing the same for frontload washers will make your head explode.

Okay, maybe it's not that bad, but there is definitely a different methodology to measuring the capacity of a drum on a frontload washer. Why is that? Because there is no agitator to foul things up.

For instance, capacity of washing machines is measured by two different agencies, the Department of Energy (DOE) and the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC). Most top load washers, with the exception of high-efficiency units such as the Oasis / Cabrio / Bravos and the GE Profile Harmony, tout capacities as measured by the Department of Energy. Most high-efficiency washer capacities are as stated by the IEC.

For example, a few years ago I was working for HH Gregg, and one of the most popular top load washers we sold was made by Whirlpool and featured a 3.2 cubic-foot capacity wash basket, as measured by the DOE. We also sold a whole lot of Whirlpool Duet frontload washers. These washers touted a capacity of 3.7 cubic-feet, as rated by the IEC. However, the wash basket itself was only 3.2 cubic-feet, the exact same as that $349 washer we sold like crazy. The difference was in the lack of the agitator taking up space. So even though it was only a 3.2 cubic-foot drum, the usable space was equivalent to that of a 3.7 cubic-foot drum with an agitator.

So you've got two different methods of measuring, and that is why the manufacturers make it clear when they are using an IEC measurement.

The largest IEC-capacity frontload washer on the market is made by Electrolux. These washers offer a 4.7 cubic-foot IEC capacity. The DOE capacity on these washers are 4.05 cubic-feet. The DOE also lists these washers as having the largest capacity of frontload washers currently available.

So, how big a drum do you need in your frontload washer? Obviously, the larger the drum, the more you can fit into a load at once, thereby reducing the total amount of loads you need to do. You can also wash larger, bulky items in a bigger drum, such as comforters, and eliminate the needs to make the trip to the laundromat.

That doesn't mean you absolutely have to have a 4.7 cubic-foot washer, or even a 4.2, which is offered Bosch and GE Profile. If you have have read some of my older posts, you'll see that I used to own a Maytag Neptune (built by Samsung) washer. This washer was rated at 3.8 cubic-feet, and I could do all of my bedding in one load. That was a comforter, two sheets, and four pillowcases. One load.

Following are the capacities of the most common frontload washers available, sorted alphabetically by manufacturer. Not all models are reflected; rather, I have simply listed a range from within the manufacturer's product lines. Also, this list is not all-inclusive as some niche brands and Euro-style washers are not included.

Amana: 3.5cf IEC, 2.9cf DOE
Asko: 3.8cf IEC, 3.29cf DOE
Bosch / Siemens: 4.2cf IEC, 3.31cf DOE
Electrolux: 4.7cf IEC, 4.05cf DOE
Frigidaire: 3.5cf to 3.1cf IEC, 3.0 to 2.65cf DOE
GE / GE Profile: 4.2cf to 3.5cf IEC, 3.61cf to 3.0cf DOE
LG: 4.5cf to 3.6cf IEC, 3.87cf to 3.2cf DOE
Miele: 4.0cf IEC, 3.07cf DOE
Samsung: 4.5cf to 3.8cf IEC, 3.86cf to 3.21cf DOE
Whirlpool / Maytag: 4.4cf to 3.4cf IEC, 3.79cf to 3.1cf DOE

The lowdown on capacity: top load washers

2009-02-23T22:00:00.002-05:00

For many people, the most confusing aspect of buying a new washer has to do with capacity. Exactly how big is that wash drum, and what does that even mean to you? I want to take a few minutes to try and answer that question.

I want to make it as simple as possible, so I will say this: capacity does not really matter. At least, not as much as the manufacturers would like you to believe. Americans like things to be big. Big cars, big houses, big credit card balances, big... uhm, you know. And the manufacturers realize this and there has been this race to be make washer drums as big as possible to capitalize on this need for "big".

So I am going to spend this post talking about capacity in top load washers. The next post will deal with frontload washers, and then finally we'll talk about dryers.

Now, I should clarify what I mean when I say capacity does not matter, because it really does. The bottom line is this: the bigger the drum, the larger the wash load, and that means less loads for you to do. But what doesn't matter is the adjectives manufacturers use to market the size of their washers.

For example, Whirlpool offers several washers (under Whirlpool brand and their various other labels, including Maytag) with what they call a "Super Capacity Plus" wash basket. This wash basket offers a usable capacity of 3.5 cubic feet. (The capacities in top load agitator washers are rated by the Department of Energy). In GE's line of top load washers, they offer several washers with a "King-size capacity" wash basket.

So, based on those two descriptions, which one is bigger? The answer is neither as they are both rated at 3.5 cubic feet.

In other brands, Frigidaire's top load washers measure at 3.0 cubic feet, and Speed Queen drums at 3.3 cubic feet.

So there are the major brands and their typical capacities in top load washers with an agitator. As you go down the line in price, you will see different descriptions that correlate to different capacities. Ignore the description and ask the actual capacity. If it's less than 3.0 cubic feet (and there are many out there), do not buy it.

Whirlpool to add jobs for new HE washer

2009-02-19T19:24:00.003-05:00

From The Toledo Blade:

Whirlpool to invest $175M at Clyde plant
New washer to bring up to 100 new jobs
BLADE STAFF

CLYDE, Ohio — Whirlpool Corp. will invest $175 million at its manufacturing plant in this Sandusky County town as part of its plan to begin building a new energy-efficient automatic washer, a move that is expected to create 90 to 100 jobs.

The decision comes three months after Whirlpool laid off 250 workers at the Clyde washing-machine plant, which has about 2,500 workers and is by far the largest employer in the county southeast of Toledo.

The news was significant as it came about a week after Whirlpool reported its fourth-quarter 2008 profit fell 76 percent and sales dropped 19 percent, plus it reduced its 2009 profit forecast.

Company spokesman Jill Saletta said the northwest Ohio investment is to begin immediately and that the jobs will be added in 2010.
-----------------------------------------

Ooooohhhh... a new washer! I don't know much about what goes into the design and assembly of these things, but I would have to believe it is a brand new design to necessitate such a massive investment.

Anxious to find out more about this new machine...

Whirlpool f51 Phone Number

2009-02-17T20:30:00.004-05:00

Guess I should be paying more attention to the comments that are left on my blog!

An anonymous reader left a comment giving two phone numbers to contact Whirlpool.

The first number, 1-866-698-2538, rings into the Whirlpool "customer eXperience Center". The reader states "After I mentioned this error code, they were very helpful and told me that while there was no official recall that they would take care of this problem free of charge. I purchased my washer in October 2006 and had this problem and a tech out within 30 days of the purchase."

The reader goes on to give a direct line to the Cabrio recall as 866-769-7260, with the advice to "Just be nice to them and I am sure they will take care of the problem."

Amana frontload washer is a great bargain

2009-02-16T22:42:00.002-05:00

If you are looking for a great deal in a frontload washer, then look no further than the Amana NFW7200TW. I didn't even know this model existed until I came across this thread at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum.

In the sub-$800 pricepoint, there really isn't a whole lot of selection. You can get a washer built by Frigidaire or the Whirlpool Duet Sport, but I'd take the Amana over those any day. Why, you ask?

This washer is built by Samsung for Whirlpool for the Amana brand. As I mentioned in one of my older posts, I owned the Samsung-built Maytag Neptune. It was a great washer, and I've no doubt this washer is just as good.

You can find more information about this washer at the Amana website.

Following are some of the features and specifications pulled from the Amana website:

* Antimicrobial Component Protection helps prevent the growth of stain and odor causing bacteria on the rubber door seal.
* ENERGY STAR® Qualified, CEE Tier1.
* 3.5 Cu. Ft. I.E.C. SuperSize Capacity
* 8 Wash Cycles
* Handwash and Delicates Cycles
* Detergent, Bleach and Fabric Softener Dispenser
* Auto Fill Water Level
* Sensing Automatic Temperature Control
* Up to 1,000 RPM Spin Speed
* Number of Temperatures: 5
* Spin Only Cycle Spin Only (button option)
* Rinse / Spin Cycle Rinse/ Spin (button option)
* Extra Rinse
* End of Cycle Signal
* Delay Start 9 hour delay start
* Estimated Time Remaining Est. Time Remaining
* Control Lockout

So for well under $800 you get an efficient, reliable, well-performing frontload washing machine. It kinda sucks that it does not have an internal water heater, but hey, this thing is a bargain.

Here are a couple reviews from the Hope Depot website:

"The washer is wonderful and such an improvement over the old one. Clothes come out clean and almost dry. Drying time is much less and we are using a lot less electricity."

"We have had this front loader for 2 weeks and it is truely a great buy.The water usage is so low that you would think that it wouldnt be able to get cloths clean, but it does a great job and yes the clothes come out hardly wet.Unbeatable price for what your getting..."

"We bought this about 6 months ago to replace a very old, out dated top loading one from Montgomery Ward. I absolutely LOVE this washer. We also bought the dryer. My clothes are always clean, it is quiet and uses very little water. I would absolutely recommend this to everyone. I was skeptical since it cost so much less than the others we had looked at. It is worth it. This set costs less than most front load washers we have looked at. THE SET!"

"We bought this machine at a great price from the Depot. I was skeptical at first about its quality at such a low price. Well, this thing is amazing. It cleans clothes very well and can handle a big load. It is so quiet you wonder if it is running at all. Uses very little water and soap. Spins clothes much dryer than a conventional washer. We would recommend it."

Pretty good reviews, eh? I am in the market for a washer and dryer, and I am very seriously considering getting this laundry pair. If you strip away all the hype and bells and whistles and gimmicks from the (vastly) more expensive washers, this is what you have: a basic washing machine that will get the job done.

They're also available on Amazom. Feeling froggy today? Then go get you one.

Stay away from AJ Madison

2009-02-09T20:21:00.007-05:00

Everybody is looking for a good deal. And everybody knows that the best deals can be found by shopping around online. We are a culture intent on getting as much stuff for as little $$$ as possible. And with the downturn in the economy, people are looking to save as much money as they can, whenever possible.

So you're in the market for a new washing machine or dryer. That is, after all, probably why you are reading this blog. So should you take the plunge and order online? After all, you buy books and clothes and music other stuff online, why not appliances?

I came across an interesting thread at Gardenweb the other day that details one person's experience with AJ Madison, one of the largest appliance sellers online. Read on to hear what this AJ Madison customer, as well as others, have to say.

As detailed in the thread at GardenWeb, the customer "ordered from A J Madison a DCS range, Bosch dishwasher, and a GE washing machine. The order arrived 3 days late with a corner knocked off the washing machine box resulting in a gouge to the front corner of the machine.

"The delivery people informed us they were not permitted to unbox nor wait while the owner unboxes the appliances. The GE damage was minor compared to our problems with the DCS range. The sides were scratched, the plastic protective covering for the griddle cover was missing. The griddle cover was scratched. But far worse, the top is lop-sided. There is a gap of at least 3/16th" on the front left side between the top and the knob panel. The sheet metal is dimpled where it is screwed in on that side. It seems to be twisted. Whether the top is too high on the left side or the knob panel is too low on that side, the result is a glaring and obvious gap---on an expensive range."

The customer was forced to postpone their move while they went to battle with AJ Madison. Phone calls were missed, a tech came out and determined the range was not repairable, and yet they have not received a commitment from AJ Madison to pick the damaged range up and deliver a new one.

So I went to Epinions to see if there are any reviews on AJ Madison. Yup, there are.Check some of these quotes out:

"Overall, after my experience with this company, I would have been happy to pay a little more money for a more favorably reviewed seller. I suggest avoiding AJ Madison if possible."

"ONE word HORRIBLE! Customer service is the worst!! If you try to contact them about an order, I hope you have plenty of time, because you will be on hold for awhile. Very Very UNPROFESSIONAL!! Please do not waste your time with this company. It would be better off going do the big box store and spending a few extra dollars and get better service." (Note: the fact that they are advising a big box store to get better service should say a lot!)

"Don't bother trying to call them (if you're not buying something you''ll never talk to anyone or get them to return a call). I cannot believe the hours that I have wasted dealing with them. It's at least 30 hours on a relatively simple group of orders. DO NOT BUY FROM THIS COMPANY!! THEY ARE LIARS, CHEATS AND THIEVES! If you do and have problems (which are common) do not expect this company to help you at all. Your only recourse will be to file a claim with your credit card company."

And it goes on and on and on.

It goes without saying that you have to take a lot of what you read online with a pound of salt. But when you see a pattern start to develop, then you should probably pay attention to that pattern. And yes, there are some positive reviews on Epinions, and other sites, about AJ Madison. However, that just goes to show that even the most inept bunch of people can do things right once in a while. Or maybe they are simply scouring the Internet and dumping in their own fake reviews.

Ask yourself if the few dollars you can save will be worth the aggravation of dealing with this company, or any other online seller, when something goes wrong.