Comments on Informed Comment: India: Please Don't Go Down the Bush- Cheney Road...

Thanks for such an insightful article. 6 months an...

2009-03-29T03:25:00.000-04:00

Thanks for such an insightful article. 6 months and I believe the danger of extreme reaction from India is over.

One of the comments from Enfieldco talks about Indian regimes needing Pakistan-bashing to survive. Being close to the ground (I am an Indian, staying in India), I know for sure that this is not a fact. While all political entities in all countries must talk negative about their "enemy" states, none of the recent elections (last 6-7 elections) in India have been fought on anti-Pakistan sentiments. And I do not see that happening in the future. At least 90% of the populace will be least bothered about Pakistan and its relation with India.

However, propping up communal tensions based on terrorism is a different matter altogether. This might result in more vote swings. But again, for communally divisive politics, you don't need Pakistan-bashing in India - there are lot of other issues to pick up on.

I thank the author for the insightful article and ...

2008-12-02T20:01:00.000-05:00

I thank the author for the insightful article and am surprised at some of the comments from my Indian friends.

Even though Muslims comprise only 12.6% of Indian population, government's own statistics shows that 80% of the victims of Hindu/Muslim riots since 1961 are Muslims. 80,000 Muslims have been killed by Indian Military and para-military forces in Kashmir. 3000 Sikhs were butchered in 1984 to avenge the killing of one person (Indira Gandhi.)

It is good that many fair minded Indian Hindus have now been trying to turn things around and make India a peaceful place safe for her minorities. But, there are also equally powerful, or even more powerful (only time will tell) forces of darkness who plan grand plans from Jabalpur riot, to Babri Masjid to Gujrat riots, and other such attrocities.

Dear Sir, I accept Iraq war was a mistake and pe...

2008-12-02T10:09:00.000-05:00

Dear Sir,

I accept Iraq war was a mistake and personal issue with Bush & Chenney but after Afghan war, how many attacks did happen in US ? How many people got killed here by Terrorist at least you should give that credit to Bush Regime and at the same time where India is continuously in a Peace process with Pakistan, what are the results of it ? Every month or two they are getting clobbered by terrorist. I really think you should visit India again because there is a long time since you've been there. India's peace process has projected it's image as weak. Pakistan always sponsored terror since Russians entered Afghan all it's doing now is redirecting those terrorist to India and other places. This is well known fact to all intelligence agencies and general people (exclude those conspiracy theories). India gave peace chance for long time and it didn't work now they should give war a chance

Thank you for a really insightful article on " Wha...

2008-12-02T07:24:00.000-05:00

Thank you for a really insightful article on " What not to do ..."

But PLease i humbly request you on behalf of all my fellow Indians - ... "WHAT SHOULD INDIA DO ????"

that Hindu extremists have killed 100 Christians i...

2008-12-02T07:16:00.000-05:00

that Hindu extremists have killed 100 Christians in eastern India in recent weeks.

100 Christians?? Mr. Cole, get your facts right. AFAIK, an equal number of Hindu and Christians were attacked by either group and their homes and places of worship vandalised. Maybe you missed the news of retaliatory attacks by Christians on numerous Hindu temples in Goa in the following days as well.

Sometimes it helps to read up a little bit more than the heavily biased news from Christian evangelical sources.

I live in Mumbai. My agitated mind found so much c...

2008-12-02T05:42:00.000-05:00

I live in Mumbai. My agitated mind found so much comfort in your words. It is reassuring to know that sanity and humanity have some noble defenders in today's violent and hateful world. These words, these ideas need to be vigorously propagated. It is said "Wars start in the minds of men." Therfore we have to reach the hearts of people to avoid a conflgration that consumes our civilization.

It reminds me of a Czheck gentleman I met during the cold war era. He told me that most of his countrymen did not like Communism but it was forced down their throat by Russia. I asked him, "Do you hate Russians?"
His reply still rings in my ears.
" How can you hate a whole people?" he said with indignation, "You can only hate particular persons."

Turanga writes;"..the BJP is not a "fundamentalist...

2008-12-02T01:27:00.000-05:00

Turanga writes;
"..the BJP is not a "fundamentalist party" or even a "Hindu party", it is a mainstream secular party just like the Congress Party..."

The fact is, BJP is a fundementalist religious party modeled on Fascism. It is the political wing of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, an extremist group consciously modeled after early twentieth century European Fascist movements in Germany and Italy. Though Fascism is dead in Europe, more or less, RSS still runs its militia camps (known as Shakhas, dress codes, salutes, and marching songs, and 'physical training'. The RSS and its outgrowths like VHP/ Bajrang Dal etc are involved in extreme violence against Muslims, Christians, and secular Hindus in various parts of the country.

Though BJP has pretensions of political right-wingism, what it is actually is religious extremist/ right-wing, prone to violence. Their extremism is not different from that of the Islamist veriety, except that it has an organisational structure imported from the Fascist movements of twentieth century. Both are violent and sectarian.

Well said Mr. Cole. I'd add one other item: Don'...

2008-12-01T20:34:00.000-05:00

Well said Mr. Cole. I'd add one other item: Don't bankrupt the country in response to a terrorist attack.

My reading of the situation is that Bin Ladin wasn't trying to lock horns militarily with the Great Satan (as he describes the US), but to cause financial chaos. I think he has succeeded way beyond his wildest wettest dreams, and this can be laid squarely at the feet of the neocon agenda.

I hope that India can use the results of the US reaction as a lesson they don't want to repeat.

Cheers, Neil.

Thanks Prof. Cole for an enlightening article....

2008-12-01T19:25:00.000-05:00

Thanks Prof. Cole for an enlightening article....

The terrorists that attacked Mumbai were not Musli...

2008-12-01T12:05:00.000-05:00

The terrorists that attacked Mumbai were not Muslims in any meaningful sense of the word. They were cultists. Some of them brought stocks of alcohol for the siege they knew they would provoke. They were not pious.

What basis (or right) does this guy have to determine if people are muslims or nonmuslims (let alone characterize the difference between 'pious' and 'nonpious' on the basis of alcohol-Islam relationship)? I'm sure he can read minds/has his own personal interpretation of what "Islam" is.

Likewise, India should not allow itself to be distracted by implausible conspiracy theories about high Pakistani officials wanting to destroy the Oberoi Hotel in Mumbai. (Does that even make any sense?)

It makes no sense, and I doubt any one will blame the Pakistan government per se. The problem is that the Pakistan govt. is fractured, and the relationship between the state/army/intelligence services are dubious and often hostile in many ways. What does make, at least historical, sense is the militants potentially having links to elements in Pakistan.

Muslims in general must not be punished for the actions of a handful of unbalanced fanatics...It should be remembered that Hindu extremists have killed 100 Christians..But that would be no excuse for a Christian crusade against Hindus or Hinduism.

This is true, but using Hindu extremists is a lacking comparison, as even a cursory look at Indian history shows that the amount of people slaughtered by members of other faiths in India out ranks any sporadic (or even tacitly state-sponsored, as suspected in Gujarat) Hindu extremist violence. It really should be the other way around.

The fundamentalist, rightwing Hindu Bharatiya Janata Party, which has extensive links with Hindu extremist groups, is already attacking the secular, left-of-center Congress Party for allegedly being soft on Muslim terrorism.

The BJP is not a "fundamentalist party" or even a "Hindu party", it is a mainstream secular party just like the Congress Party. However, both parties are guilty of often inflammatory communal "vote bank" politics(BJP often relies on Hindus, while Congress often relies on the Christian/Muslim/other minorities).

...and for the Indian public to return [BJP] to power now would risk further geopolitical and domestic tensions

The Congress and BJP party both are guilty of blaming Pakistan for every slight. Also important to note is that the Congress party is the one who in many ways instigated the pogrom against the Sikhs--it does not have some sort of monopoly on keeping tensions calm/inflaming them.

Just a note that a look at the list of victims pos...

2008-12-01T11:14:00.001-05:00

Just a note that a look at the list of victims posted at http://www.mumbaihelp.blogspot.com/
(scroll down) shows that among them are a substantial number of muslims.

Regarding the failures of the Indian government, t...

2008-12-01T11:14:00.000-05:00

Regarding the failures of the Indian government, the following link outlines it. The fact is that the Indian government had actionable intelligence, and did nothing. In part this is because appearing tough on terrorism is politically interpreted as war-mongering or hate-mongering. Mumbai is what happens when security falls prey to politics.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-knew-about-the-threat-did-nothing-arun-shourie/79457-3-p0.html

Without hatred and without a wish for war, or to c...

2008-12-01T11:10:00.000-05:00

Without hatred and without a wish for war, or to create national stereotypes, I point out the following:

The impression the narrative in the American press is meant to convey is that of a Pakistan headed by a civilian government, with a cooperative military and intelligence agencies, and rogue elements of the military, intelligence helping outlawed organizations like the Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Taliban and sundry fundamentalists who infest the western frontier of the country along the Afghan border.

That is simply not true. As this news-item will make amply clear (this is from September 30, 2008):
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1194581
ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan government has granted permission to the chief of the Pakistan-based terrorist group, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, to import a duty free bullet-proof Land Cruiser, worth Rs 25 million.

According to the interior ministry sources in Islamabad, the LeT chief, who fears a possible attempt on his life by his “external enemies”, had sought the government permission to import a duty free bullet proof Land Cruiser in view of the rising number of terrorist acts across Pakistan.

The sources said that after some lengthy deliberations on the issue, the government has decided to give him a go ahead to import a fully armoured Land Cruiser for his use from Dubai. It was for the first time that the leader of a banned jehadi group had made such a request to the government and it is also for the first time that the government has acceded to such a request.

-------

The terrorists are part of Pakistan's so-called civil society. This should be unacceptable to you, Professor Cole, and I call upon you to call for its end.

Since peace is your (laudable) goal, it is also upto you (and me and everyone else) to make sure Pakistan expels these people from its civil society and truly makes them fugitives.

Mr Misha Glenny, the author of McMafia: Crime with...

2008-12-01T02:22:00.000-05:00

Mr Misha Glenny, the author of McMafia: Crime without Frontiers, has the following insightful Comment which may interest those visiting this page:

Misha Glenny
This was not global jihad. Its roots are closer to home
The Guardian
Monday, December 1, 2008.

Mr Glenny's reference to India's "shambolic intelligence and security forces" conforms with the view that I have expressed in my earlier Comment on this page.

BF.

I was also worrying India could follow the same da...

2008-11-30T22:53:00.000-05:00

I was also worrying
India could follow the same dangerous path.

Bush-Cheney betrayed the victims of 9/11, Singh must move to the contrary closer to the new Pakistani president.

All politics is domestic. No nation has a foreign...

2008-11-30T22:02:00.000-05:00

All politics is domestic. No nation has a foreign policy. Foreign enemies are always allegories for domestic factions.

So shall it be in India. It is all about the BJP and Hindutva. Wait and watch.

read the sameer reddy newsweek analysis the only i...

2008-11-30T17:35:00.000-05:00

read the sameer reddy newsweek analysis the only indepth intelligent piece on mumbai attacks .
it points clearly to motives and between lines implicates right wing hindus .
how do you tell a punjabi hindu from a punjabi muslim if they are cirmcised -it seems lie an upcoming action scam as sameer says there

Thank you, Dr Cole, for an excellent article.

2008-11-30T16:51:00.000-05:00

Thank you, Dr Cole, for an excellent article.

Below I reproduce what I have written elsewhere.On...

2008-11-30T15:59:00.000-05:00

Below I reproduce what I have written elsewhere.

One wonders at the sheer incompetence of India's security apparatuses: how is it possible that such an organised terrorist act could have been mounted and taken India by surprise? One should realise that this was not a terrorist act committed by a lone person, which could indeed have contained an element of surprise. I think that some heads at the top of India's security establishment will have to roll in response to this clear display of utter incompetence. Of course, the same can be said about the security apparatuses of the countries that have intelligence officers attached to their embassies in India.

BF.

Well put as usual, Dr. Cole. If America could impl...

2008-11-30T15:50:00.000-05:00

Well put as usual, Dr. Cole. If America could implement your rational thought in her policies, we would be in much better shape.

Well said Dr. Cole. I agree that there is reason ...

2008-11-30T15:03:00.000-05:00

Well said Dr. Cole. I agree that there is reason to have confidence that India will prove to be more civilized than the United States, and not concoct, vigorously promote (domestically and internationally), and act on false casus belli. Thus I believe India will not aggressively pursue policies that are to their direct detriment.

I fear that Bush and Obama will now lock hands in ...

2008-11-30T14:40:00.000-05:00

I fear that Bush and Obama will now lock hands in demonizing and attacking Pakistan, based on the attribution of the Mumbai attacks to Pakistan.

The Bush administration was convinced that 9/11 co...

2008-11-30T13:56:00.001-05:00

The Bush administration was convinced that 9/11 could not have been the work of a small, independent terrorist organization. They insisted that Iraq must somehow have been behind it.

You have got the anology wrong here. Pakistan is more like Afghanistan than Iraq in this context. Hardly anyone disputes the fact that some Pakistan based group is involved and all these groups get some form of official support / protection / free hand.

The only difference is the govt. is not directly involved. Pakistan can apprehend the leaders of the responsible groups and extradite them to India and take stpes to eliminate these groups. End of story - no war needed.

But if they insist on not doing anything about the culprits (or some fake ban / arrest / rename / release that Musharraf did after Parliament attack on 2001) - then it is clear Pakistan govt. is not interested in stamping out terror and wants to keep its options open onKashmir and continue the low intensity war.

Muslims in general must not be punished for the ac...

2008-11-30T13:54:00.000-05:00

Muslims in general must not be punished for the actions of a handful of unbalanced fanatics. Down that road lies the end of civilization.

Absolutely. I agree wholeheartedly. But less so with this...

The terrorists that attacked Mumbai were not Muslims in any meaningful sense of the word. They were cultists. Some of them brought stocks of alcohol for the siege they knew they would provoke. They were not pious.

In what sense are these extremists "not Muslims?" Does this really do us any good to suggest that extremists within religions are really "not a part" of that religion? Were crusaders not really Christians? Are members of al-Qaeda not really Muslims? No and no. No, they aren't representative of the whole but they're very much a part of their respective religions.

I've written a bit about this elsewhere (in respect to Christianity), but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and say that the part = the whole, nor apologize for some of the more unpleasant aspects of religious devotion. Let's just start to actually deal with it -- talking about why this is an element of Islam (or Christianity or Hinduism or whatever) and what that actually means.

The Government of Pakistan, for whatever its gover...

2008-11-30T13:44:00.000-05:00

The Government of Pakistan, for whatever its governance abilities are worth, appear to be in the know of rogue elements operating within their country. The military is a law unto itself, and it is difficult to believe that the democratically-elected government in Pakistan has much control over the military.

How does one tackle rogue elements directly associated with the military? How does one force the Government of Pakistan to overcome its own military's control over intelligence and deport criminals and terrorists wanted by the Government of India, the Interpol and the FBI? No amount of pressure has worked in the past. How is it that magazine editors and TV crews have access to terrorists in Pakistan for interviews and photo opportunities, while the Government claims that they don't exist within the country?

My concern is that individuals, both within civil society and within the government, have nothing to do with any of this, and yet they appear to come in harm's way whenever they attempt to acknowledge the good sense spoken in international conventions related to reigning in domestic terror groups. However, just as various sections of Indian media are calling the Mumbai attacks a failure of governance in Mumbai and indeed the whole of India, the failure to reign in rogue elements and capture terrorists and terror groups is a failure of the Government of Pakistan.

The US needs to mobilize an international force, not an army, and send them inside Pakistan for systematic, undercover termination of key individuals associated with the terror groups.