Comments on Vermont Field Journal: What to do with posted property

My land is "posted" in that I have put up signs. ...

2009-05-07T14:56:00.000-04:00

My land is "posted" in that I have put up signs. It is not "legally" posted in that I have not registered with the town and my signs are not on their own posts and all of the other rules for legal posting. My reason for putting up the signs is not that I would exclude hunters. I have dogs, some of them look enough like a coyote that they would get shot. I have had thefts from a camper that I don't bother to lock. A turkey decoy and call were stolen so I feel confident that it was hunters that stole them. I wish my hunting neighbors would come and ask permission so that an organized hunt could be planned. Hunting for that great feeling of satisfaction of outsmarting a deer or so that we can have a good story for deer camp is absurd. Hunting tradition is about obtaining meat. Stand hunting is every bit as traditional as still hunting. It requires different skills. Still hunting is great for those who cannot sit still for ten minutes, but it's not better or more "traditional" than stand hunting. My signs should be enough to let people know that I would prefer to give them permission than find them wandering my land. I pay the taxes. I live on my land. It is not a second home. My grandfathers are not buried in Vermont. Last hunting season, hunters were all over my land. This season, my land will be legally posted and patrolled. If you want the entire state to go this way, keep disrespecting private land owners with theft and trespass.

I've never posted my land before, but I am this ye...

2009-03-21T10:15:00.000-04:00

I've never posted my land before, but I am this year. I have found tree stands and even tents set up by hunters who never asked me if they could hunt on my land.

I have been out walking my dog and run into hunters which makes me fearful for my dog (who runs off leash) and myself getting shot. Why do I have to stay off my own land during hunting seasons to feel safe? So after 17 years of living on my property I am posting it this year.

Anonymous -You are very quick to call others selfi...

2008-11-05T15:20:00.000-05:00

Anonymous -
You are very quick to call others selfish, but it's clear from your posts here that you are most selfish of all. Your comments belie a shocking sense of entitlement, and you are obviously incapable of understanding why a property owner may not want an embittered, raging, irrational person such as yourself waving a loaded firearm around on their land. But, please be assured, this glimpse of you has inspired me to post my property ASAP.

"I personally find that to be selfish but respect ...

2008-02-16T19:30:00.000-05:00

"I personally find that to be selfish but respect the right. If you don't want others hunting your land then you need to atleast get off your butt and pound in a few signs. I'm sure yours are replaced every year so as to be bright and shiny come opening morning."

There you go, throwing silly insults again. If you "respect that right", why do you insult me?? I guess I cannot "get off my butt" because I am not as fit as you? Why are you so angry?

I do not own any land, but have worked hard for several years to get permission from others who do. Unfortunaltley, we live in a world with more people than 40 years ago, and thus asking permission is required or all land will be posted or law changed in future I believe. If I did own land, people could hunt it, by permission, so I know who is there...I do not see a probelem with that.

Everything I said is true.Here's the statute:http:...

2008-02-15T20:19:00.000-05:00

Everything I said is true.

Here's the statute:

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullsection.cfm?Title=10&Chapter=119&Section=05202

As I said, its the most unawknowledged/unknown law on the books.

You CAN post a stream/river in Vermont and effectively own it just like in other states.

Furthermore, the free access law states "boatable and like" waters. What that means is subject to interpretation, because boatable means one can navigate the body. Clearly you can't navigate a small stream. If somebody has a private manmade stocked pond, with outflow down a ditch, do you think you have the right to walk up that outflow and fish it?

Not true. In Vermont if you are in the river, whic...

2008-02-14T16:39:00.000-05:00

Not true. In Vermont if you are in the river, which is within the bankfull, you are fine. Out west you can't even be in the water of posted land. You are correct about portage, but if you stay within bankfull you are fine. Passable is a pretty loose term.

"out west in states where you can own river"You ca...

2008-02-12T19:17:00.000-05:00

"out west in states where you can own river"

You can do that here. The posting law for streams/rivers is just below the posting law for land. There are some requirements, but its probably the most unawknowledged/unknown hunting law on the books. Besides that, VT does not have a portage law, so that means if the river is obstructed and the land is posted, you have to turn around.

Guilt? What for?Come on out of your cave.

2008-02-12T18:15:00.000-05:00

Guilt? What for?

Come on out of your cave.

It seems to me you are trying to cover up for your...

2008-02-12T17:47:00.000-05:00

It seems to me you are trying to cover up for your own guilt about posting your land. Your latent guilt is seeking to justify your poor behavior. You continue to seek approval from others for what you know deep down is selfish and wrong. You seek to change the law so you won't have to wear those posted signs like a scarlet letter. Your shame is obvious.

This pretty much sums it up:http://www.law.duke.ed...

2008-02-12T17:16:00.000-05:00

This pretty much sums it up:

http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?54+Duke+L.+J.+549

The statutes should be changed.

"Stand hunting is only a step above road hunting i...

2008-02-12T15:08:00.000-05:00

"Stand hunting is only a step above road hunting in my opinion"

Road hunting is the Benoit way. Did they not suggest to take to the roads in order to find a track?

The future of hunting is dependent upon common cou...

2008-02-12T09:22:00.000-05:00

The future of hunting is dependent upon common courtesy. Those who get aboard of this righteous tradition claiming baloney are the ones who will be the direct cause of the loss of hunting rights.

Signs get hung because of these people.

Frankly there is nothing selfish about posting property. There is nothing selfish about removing unwanted behavior from your property. It's no more selfish than locking your front door.

Frankly, I understand how one might think it's selfish. I mean if you never ask a landowner for permission, you will never find out the landowner's reason for posting or whether they allow people to hunt. Lack of common courtesy perpetuates the mindset.

Wrong - if you feel so strongly about your propert...

2008-02-11T21:13:00.000-05:00

Wrong - if you feel so strongly about your property - post it! That's the law. I personally find that to be selfish but respect the right. If you don't want others hunting your land then you need to atleast get off your butt and pound in a few signs. I'm sure yours are replaced every year so as to be bright and shiny come opening morning.

Seems like the reason we are having this discussio...

2008-02-11T21:02:00.000-05:00

Seems like the reason we are having this discussion is land is getting posted and people loosing hunting land - I am proposing an answer to try to prevent the loss of hunting opportunities - I think I have done so without sligning personal or group insults.

You seem to be proposing taking peoples basic property rights of saying who can/cannot be on their property.

Jamey - hanging a tree stand on someones property ...

2008-02-11T20:49:00.000-05:00

Jamey - hanging a tree stand on someones property is different than still hunting or tracking across it. There are already laws in place in Vermont that require landowner permission to hang a stand. As far as my land it is unposted and anybody can hunt on it. You advocated changing that by requiring that anybody who wants to pass through needs to get permission from me. The truth is I hunt many locations and am crossing other peoples property all the time. Most of them I don't know. I may cross 10 or 15 properties in a day. I only know I'm doing so by the survey markers. I just hope you know that your proposal would be devestating to most of the state.

You are correct on all points...I cannot agrgue wi...

2008-02-11T20:47:00.000-05:00

You are correct on all points...I cannot agrgue with such good logic as that. You're methods and thoughts are the best, mine invalid.

Stand hunting is superior to tracking and still hu...

2008-02-11T20:42:00.001-05:00

Stand hunting is superior to tracking and still hunting? What a joke! Stand hunting is only a step above road hunting in my opinion. I would never road hunt period. The deer I've taken from a tree stand have produced no great memories no matter how big the deer. The deer I have worked for still hunting, stalking, or tracking I will never forget. But hey, keep cultivating your little food plot - I'm sure taking a deer from a stand makes you feel like a great hunter. The bigger the antlers the better you feel right. Let's hear all the great stories about how you sat and then you shot. It's always funny to hear road hunters talk about the buck they got. They never tell the story because there wasn't one. It's the same thing with stand hunting. I mean with a food plot you don't really have to even scout a stand site. It's like "duh I'll hang it over the food plot I planted". I've seen people with little or no knowledge of deer or deer hunting take animals from a stand consistently. You can't say the same about still hunting, tracking.

Anon, you seem to make presumptions of what I do a...

2008-02-11T20:42:00.000-05:00

Anon, you seem to make presumptions of what I do and don't care about via this limited forum? I assume you purchased land to manage the hunting habitat in the way you felt was most favorable and condusive to hunting? What if soembody felt they would like to erect several stands on you land year after year in the best spots and did care what you say? I in fact am in favor of people deer hunting via tracking, just a I am in favor of those trackers respecting those who prefer to be in a stand. Most importantly, I am in favor of letting the person who owns the land know you would like to be on their land if it is ok with them.

It might not be at all! I think Jameys path will l...

2008-02-11T20:22:00.000-05:00

It might not be at all! I think Jameys path will lead to the eventual loss of all hunting rights. I didn't need to own land to hunt growing up in Vermont. The entire state was my hunting ground. Yes - development is inevitable but unforutnately much of the problem is from hunters like Jamey. He could care less about Vermont traditions. He could care less about others who may prefer to track or still hunt. I believe that we can save our traditions but it requires less selfishness. I have been fortunate enough as an adult to now own land and a nice hunting cabin too but I would never post it. It's just wrong.

Vermont does or did have a tradition of open land....

2008-02-08T20:29:00.000-05:00

Vermont does or did have a tradition of open land. When I grew up and started hunting in the early 70s it was go anywhere and the land owners just waved when they saw you. I remember several times the land owners wife helping me to load a deer on their car to take home for me because I had wanderd far from home in serch of a buck.
But the only constent is change. And those days are quickly coming to an end. It's very sad to see and live through. The reality now is many houses and many smaller pieces of land. I would hunt my way to elementary school and leave my rifle in the maintenance shed for the day and hunt my home. Now I can't step on that 100 plus acres of public school land with my rifle.
It is common courtesy now to ask permission. So much has changed in the last 35 years I can't imagine what hunting will look like in another 35 years.

I agree with above.Given that it is also tough to ...

2008-02-07T16:22:00.000-05:00

I agree with above.

Given that it is also tough to define "traditional" hunting as techniques such as tracking, requiring unrestricted access to often thousands of acres, may not have been the dominant hunting technique just 100 years ago when meat was the main goal, not a big buck, similar to dairy not being the traditional farm just 130 years ago (free range sheep then). Hunting is now recreation, just as skiing and snow machining and ATV riding.

There is plenty of public land for those who want to track for miles without asking permission from the person who owns the land you are using.

If I want to go on your land, and vice-versa, for whatever reason, I should ask, and you can say "no" or "yes" and don't have to give any reason why...THAT is what seperates the U.S. from the "old country".

Just the way I feel.

Hunting today hardly resembles anything that can b...

2008-02-06T13:36:00.000-05:00

Hunting today hardly resembles anything that can be considered to be tradition. Times change and there is no stopping that.

I think the primary reason for posting is that people get too close to houses, then it's other behavior like some righteous dirtbag giving the landowner the what-for when they bump into each other. Bang! Up go the signs. That's like a nail in the coffin. Not only does that hunter screw it up for himself, he just killed it for everybody else. And then on top of that you have littering, road hunting, poaching, gate blocking, rut making, tree stand nailing, firearm mishandling, backyard gutting, etc, etc...

If you can't have the common courtesy of asking for permission regardless of whether it's posted, you should just stay at home so you don't ruin it for the rest of us.

The change in law would not impact decent hunters at all. And then maybe we would be able to get rid of all the yellow.

I just don't see why so bad to ask the owner first...

2008-02-05T10:46:00.000-05:00

I just don't see why so bad to ask the owner first to hunt their land as trespass seems to be the largest land owner/hunter complaint. If owner says no, for whatever reason, that is ok as it is his/her land.

Where I am in the Champlain valley, most hunting is stand hunting. I think stand hunting is most fun and supperior to tracking. What about single gobbler at edge of field or upland bird hunting good cover or hunting a field where geese have been feeding, or a berry patch that has bear (all really good for a single party at a time on a given spot, thus permission best way to go)?

Just my opinion.

Jamey - no offense but you speak like an "out of s...

2008-02-04T21:32:00.000-05:00

Jamey - no offense but you speak like an "out of stater". Our hunting tradition in Vermont depends on access to land. I've hunted in Ohio which is a state that doesn't require posting like you suggest. No - thankyou. Our traditional ways of tracking and still hunting are far superior to their stand hunting and drives. I believe your approach to land management will destroy hunting in this state. We're all talking about trying to increase access and you're actually looking to decrease it - save for a select few. I just don't understand people who think that way. It's selfish.

No, In the "old country" the royals owned the land...

2008-02-02T20:28:00.000-05:00

No, In the "old country" the royals owned the land AND game, here, everybody owns the game. big difference.

It is really issue of property rights - one of which is the right to exclude others - which, for good reason, vested in our laws and common sense.

The right to purchase a hunting license is not a right to go on someboy elses land, just as a drivers license is not a license to drive your 4-whee drive accross ones lawn.

I am not lucky enough to be born into a farm/land holding family with private land to hunt, thus I have worked really hard to get permission to hunt private land - which is proper I think.

The beauty of a permission-only trespass law is that those on the land took the time to ask, will follow the owners rules, and limits/desperses the hunting pressure - good for all. Owner know's who is on land and is fine with that. Mostly, this will improve "hunter image"