Comments on The Leading Point: Council in Lakeland

It is very sad to see the Charismatic church in su...

2008-09-06T20:17:00.000-05:00

It is very sad to see the Charismatic church in such a state. We have taken a world view and no longer have a biblical view. Doctrine is boring, any movement is exciting. There is always some "New Anointing" or "New Jesus" waiting to be revealed at the next "New and Special Outpouring". Paul stated he was determined to know nothing except Jesus Christ and him Crucufied. I have said earlier that there should be a new name for the next outpouring claim, the "Elusive anointing", its always around the next bend or at the base of the next rainbow. What we have is never enough, more power, fire, vision, prophecies, revelations, dreams and angels while are families fall apart, divorces increase and our children leave the church after graduation. We need to get back to the basics.
Also I am amazed that we can rally around someone because of their gifts. I recall one of our local pastors who fell for the third time morally in 12 years. Everyone that attended his church said, he is just such a great teacher and so gifted". In all the qualifications for ministry being a good father and mother, with sterling character is at the top of the list, even before giftings. It's kind of like finding a nice t-bone steak In a garbage can surrounded by garbage and eating it. The steak maybe good but I will not go through garbage to retrieve it. There were so many warning flags surrounding Bentley he should have been out right rejected, such a treatment may have sobered Bentley more than any other. We put a premium on the anointing and can excuse almost any behavior because in our minds the Spirit of God is validating the messenger, nothing could be further than the truth. Both Baalam and Saul operated in the "Spirit" while backslidden. Saul prophesied all night and visited a witch and earlier had ordered all the priests murdered.
Bentley's revelations added to the Word and non-verified testimonies were eaten up by a jubilant crowd each night. Also I hear the constant whine about not judging a brother. Paul repeatedly reproved believers, he told Timothy to reprove and rebuke and certainly Jesus addressed issues with the religious leaders of his day. The other statement in defense of Bentley is we all are carnal and are guilty so we should shut up. You know, something like, you drink too much coffee and I commit adultery so let's just call it even. Were all in the same boat, nonsense!! It is very clear in the Old Testament there were different penalties and sin sacrifices for various sins committed. Some sins involved even physical punishment and some the death penalty. Misrepresenting God, the Word, the Holy Spirit, and testimonies and abusing the sick certainly are serious areas. Oh well, I know I will be looked on by many as a judge but I have been and still am a pastor of 37 years. I believe in the miraculous but an very concerned over the current state of the Charismatic movement.

timanddeb@commspeed.net

2008-09-06T20:16:00.000-05:00

timanddeb@commspeed.net

Peter Wagner has lost all credibility. He is cove...

2008-09-03T05:31:00.000-05:00

Peter Wagner has lost all credibility. He is covering his butt on this one. He needs to retire his self-appointed title and go work in a soup kitchen for a while. he might then have a real picture of service to the Body of Christ.

I am glad that the bible wasn't written by anonymo...

2008-08-23T22:26:00.000-05:00

I am glad that the bible wasn't written by anonymous peoples. They sure have a lot of opinions that they are not willing to identify with.
I think most of you guys are way out of your pay grade and are pretty full of yourselves.

The men that I know who are apostolic in their gifting are broken, servants who have been called to be a gift to the Church and give up all of their own desires, ambitions, and personal goals to follow Gods call on their life.

Don't filter your judgement of this situation through the filters of your struggles with authority. We see authority completely different than Jesus does. He came with authority from the God of all but lived as a servant to all. The apostolic call has the same calling, to serve. It is others that put them on a pedestal and it is a constant challenge to remain in humility.

The army of God is the only army that I know that shoot their wounded.

I applaud men who are trying to walk out that calling and I pray that God give them wisdom and allow them to see how it all fits together. The real leaders of the Kingdom are the servants of all and are not anonymous.

The way up is down.

Chuck
Cincinnati

It is amazing how similar some brethren sound to h...

2008-08-21T16:44:00.000-05:00

It is amazing how similar some brethren sound to hounding wolves.
May I salute Bill Johnson, Che Ahn and others who have been put in a very difficult position but have chosen not to abandon Todd Bentley but walk him through this. And Bill Johnson has taken care to state that Peter Wagner in no way endorsed the revival. The video clip is available on his site.

Furthermore, can we please be clear on the fact that the anointing is one thing, character issues are another, and quite obviously Todd has those to sort out. This was his Achilles's heel and it has dealt him a severe blow. Perhaps we can now go on to show Christlikeness and pray for restoration, let the same who preach David every weekend now acknowledge that perhaps Todd too will repent, find forgivess and be restored.

How many of those who flocked to Lakeland covered this young man and his family in prayer? I address this at length on my blog www.bolaoged.com. And how many of those pouring vitriol on him today can have their own sins exposed publicly without casting opprobrium on the name of Christ? Beware a pharisaical spirit. Truly brethren, let him who is without sin cast the first stone. This is a sad day for the church, let us mourn, but not gloat, it is too unbecoming.

It is amazing how similar some brethren sound to h...

2008-08-21T16:36:00.000-05:00

I read all the comments...how quickly we are to ju...

2008-08-20T11:12:00.000-05:00

I read all the comments...how quickly we are to judge. I watched the revival on TV and actually went to the Louisville meeting. Wither it was all excitement or not...it changed me. It placed in me a hunger for Jesus not a revival but Jesus.

I pray for Todd and his family, I know that God's grace is sufficient and while we are so quick to judge and condemn him...what gives us the right? The church should be praying for him, his wife, and especially his children.

I grew up in a charismatic church and when I hit my teenage years walked away because I felt that Christians were judgmental and hypocritical. I looked to people and not Jesus. I came back to Jesus when the consequences of my sin had caught up with me. He made right was wrong and showed me that His love is enough. I've had a hard time with church and it's taken me years to feel comfortable going. Let's stop being religious and start becoming more like Jesus. Revival will come when we as a church stop looking at ourselves, others, and start wanting Jesus.

My prayer is that we stop blaming our brothers and sisters, that we reach out in love and compassion. That's who my Savior is and nothing has taken place that He was not aware of. He still loves Todd Bentley and He still has a plan and purpose for his life. He has forgiven Mr. Bentley 2000 years ago. He isn't angry at those who supported this outpouring, he is not an angry God. His anger was poured out on the cross. Those who supported this revival for the right reasons, will not be deterred by human frailty but they will turn even more to the One Who Is The Answer. We need to stop throwing stones and lift Todd Bentley in prayer.

If these so called apostles were running a company...

2008-08-19T17:14:00.000-05:00

If these so called apostles were running a company it is one whose shares i would not purchase.People with the gift of disernment have been screaming at their TV screens for months(Godtv when will you issue an apology?)God is speaking into this situation,listen to the authentic prophets and ignore the exteme prophetic and their foolishness.Church quit the foolishness there is a world to be won for the Saviour.

WOW!!! The Million Dollar Todd Bentley Hoax!!! WOW...

2008-08-15T22:46:00.000-05:00

WOW!!! The Million Dollar Todd Bentley Hoax!!! WOW!!!
Todd says God told him to get 1,000 people to give $1,000 dollars. When people confronted Todd, Todd admitted that God did not say that. WOW!!!
Proof positive that Todd Bentley is spiritually abusing everyone.
Todd Bentley is EXPOSED as a LIAR and a THIEF!!!
http://blog.trentonadams.ca/2008/07/31/the-hidden-darkness-is-exposed/

I hope I don’t sound like I’m laughing at this situation, as God hates divorce (Malachi 2:14-15). But, like IST, I find this situation highly ironic, in that Bentley claims that God is working through him to work “signs and wonders,” yet God can’t manage to put the Bentleys’ marriage back together.

I recently attended the outpouring and the spirit ...

2008-08-15T14:02:00.000-05:00

I recently attended the outpouring and the spirit presence was incredible. If you turned away from the altar and began to look out into the crowd it became incredibly strong. When i turned back towards the altar it was about the weight of a good spirit filled service.

I believe that God was telling me that the annointing was for the people to take with them and that if we have our eyes turned out or towardsothers it will increase.

The rest of it has become unfortunately alot like church. God exalts and God abases. And the fact that He chose to use an imperfect vessel like Todd Bentley encourages me. Religion uses control and criticism masked in "discernment."

I have complete faith in the fact that that I serve a very real God and that means there is a very real devil and he is a very mean %$#@!!~!

It does not surprise me that in the wake of this that this man, Todd Bentley's, House has been attacked and the weaknesses exposed. Todd is not perfect (i do not know him personally) and neither am I. His wife is not perfect and neither is mine. In both homes there is strugle and unfortunately at times division.

We are never on the same page at all times in a marriage and sometimes we become frustrated and hopeless. I use the analogy of marriage is alot like living on a ship. Some days are sunny and we are on deck enjoying the cruise and other days its more like, "Oh my God look at the storm and all the waves.

Once again we are attacking the body and validating cancer within our church. Todd lifts up the name of Jesus and cannot control any falsely claimed healings or credit for any legitimate ones. Its all Jesus.

So...before you attack me please put down your stones and thank Jesus for all that He has done through this Global Outpouring and pray for Todd and Shonna. In that we are the body of Christ and we are becoming more like Jesus.

God Bless everyone of you and God Bless Todd and Shonna and FreshFire Ministries for stepping out in faith even though they too are imperfect.

Brad Herman

John Wesley once said, "Lord, bring revival witout...

2008-08-14T14:37:00.000-05:00

John Wesley once said, "Lord, bring revival witout defects. But if that isn't possible, bring revival defects and all."

I personally know two drug addicts set free and on fire for God from going to the meetings in Lakeland. Many other revivals have started out of this. Pray that the Holy Spirit uses this revival to spawn even more.

p.s I don't carry rocks as I'm not without sin.

Peter, that was a tough job. Thanks for approachin...

2008-08-13T21:52:00.000-05:00

Peter, that was a tough job. Thanks for approaching it as delicately and respectfully as you did. The Church is richer because of your ministry!

When driving home from the Pensicola renewal I que...

2008-08-13T17:26:00.000-05:00

When driving home from the Pensicola renewal I questioned the Lord about concerning the length of the revival and He said to me "It will last untill men change the order I have established from the beginning" which reminded me of William DeArteaga's book "Quenching the Spirit" which examines centuries of opposition to the Moving of the Holy Spirit. "God is sovereign" and will not share "His glory" with any man....We certainly live in a world where we are "weathering an unprecedented season of moral failure and spiritual compromise". Our only hope is God's mercy and grace poured out on a praying people....D.D. Kerrville, Tx.

I have been a Christian for many years. Christians...

2008-08-13T12:37:00.000-05:00

I have been a Christian for many years. Christians are great for their "talk", but we need more work on the "walk". If God can heal the sick, raise the dead, and deliver us from our sins (and HE can!), then He can also bring healing to a broken marriage. On improving the walk, we should pray for Todd Bentley that God will intervenne. God is able to do a miracle not only for Todd Bentley but also in and through Todd Bentley. I pray for the name of Jesus to be lifted up. He is bigger than Cancer, bigger than disease, bigger than us and all of our problems. God says that HE "hates divorce", and His Word has not changed. Now is not the time to give up, but to pray for Todd as the early church prayed for the Apostle Peter. God is faithful! I pray that Todd and his wife will be obedient to the Word of God. We should pray and fast for their deliverance.

Glen, thanks for your insight. I agree with your ...

2008-08-13T08:56:00.000-05:00

Glen, thanks for your insight. I agree with your line of thought. I'm 31 years old, I've been to Bible college, have parents in the ministry, and have done smaller things myself. I have been waiting for those who are seasoned in the Lord to put out some sort of statement to either endorse or reject the Lakeland debacle. Thus far, it hasn't really happened, and I'm wondering why. I don't want to be too harsh in my judgments toward others, but I cannot say that I'm pleased with what I've seen from Bro. Bentley. My foremost issue is that of disrespect for the Holy Spirit. The second would be extra-biblical doctrine. Those 2 reasons alone are enough to turn me in the opposite direction. I do, however, hope that Godly intervention will take place for him. He obviously has a large following, and the Lord could work through him in another way if he is open to it.

Being a Christian is never dull. You learn somethi...

2008-08-12T21:57:00.000-05:00

Being a Christian is never dull. You learn something new everyday. I've been a minister/chaplain for a long time and was originally an evangelist. But this is the first time I have ever heard of being required to have "Apostolic Alignment" in order to have your minstry protected. While I've been baptized in The Holy Spirit, which is given by God, I didn't realize that I needed this extra touch from men who appointed themselves as "apostles" and whose approval was necessary in order to do God's work. I thought it was God Who made these appointments and it was God Whose approval we are to seek.
The next time I go in to get my car aligned, I will check to see if there is an 'apostle' on duty that can align me at the same time. Perhaps they will give me a twofer deal.
Rev. Austin Miles
California

We have had two local pastors attend the Lakeland ...

2008-08-12T21:52:00.000-05:00

We have had two local pastors attend the Lakeland revival twice, and have brought back the outpouring of the Spirit to our area. Regular meeting are going on and many are being saved, anointed, healed, delivered as a result. We praise God for His blessings in our lives as a result of the Lakeland revival. Wish we could have attended ourselves, but these local meetings are very positive results of God power and blessing. Thank God that Todd Bentley responded to God call to this powerful ministering in Florida.

I have been a Christian for 56 years. I have been...

2008-08-12T21:48:00.000-05:00

I have been a Christian for 56 years. I have been a pastor, evangelist, minister of youth and music, been on radio and TV and a teacher, among other things. I have a BA and ThM degrees. I have been used in the gifts of the Spirit, experienced many salvations and healings in my ministry. I have seen multitudes slay in the Spirit [not pushed over by me, slain by the Spirit]. However, I do not feel that I should be called a "prophet" or an "apostle" nor do I feel I should be appointed one by anyone on this earth. With all of the pressures of the ministry my wife and I will celebrate 48 years of marriage in a few days. The true anointing of God will never tear a family apart....it will only make it stronger. When God begins to pour out His spirit in great revival we need to leave the hype to worldly events and let God spread the good tidings of what is being done. We also need to be very cautious in seeing that things are not done that do not line up with the Scripture. When that begins to happen they it needs to be brought into line or the "revival" shut down. There needs to be unquestionable verification of any and ALL miracles that are reported. I pray the good that has been done will be long lasting....but I also pray that the error will be called what it is and corrected. En agape....An Older Saint

I am saddened and angered that Christians would wi...

2008-08-12T18:22:00.000-05:00

I am saddened and angered that Christians would wish another Christian or anyone, for that matter, ill. And further to celebrate another persons misery. Little wonder it is difficult to bring people into the church - they don['t have to come to church and tithe, they can get battered anywhere for free

I made an earlier comment that I know I gave in a ...

2008-08-12T18:16:00.000-05:00

I made an earlier comment that I know I gave in a right spirit. I think we have to speak boldly but speak the truth in love. Praise God if some went to the revival and had no complaints. But, there were a lot of issues there that needed to be addressed. Even the Apostolic covered "narrowed" it down to 24 issues and they are divided on them. I feel as those of us who have issues with Lakeland are often considered quenchers of the Spirit. Then, Jesus was too because He addressed a lot of things that needed addressing.

I, too, pray that Todd and his wife will get out of ministry for a while and minister to their marriage. I don't have much hope for that since the statement on his website says basically we are praying for healing but this does not mean reconciliation will occur. Those two need to sit down with a true Christian mediator and say where do we need to die so Christ can live? We want to honor him with our marriage, not just our ministry. Sorry, but I don't see a lot of dying today. Lots of hoopla, but not much dying. I pray that I and all of us will not sing "It's all about You", but will live it.

I especially liked your comment about bloggers bei...

2008-08-12T17:25:00.000-05:00

I especially liked your comment about bloggers being armchair quarterbacks. That's amusing.

So are we to assume by your analogy that bloggers aren't really "in the game" and that they just sit around speculating about the game?

Wagner and Co are flakes and should be avoided.

2008-08-12T17:12:00.000-05:00

Wagner and Co are flakes and should be avoided.

I do want to add that I believe we should be disce...

2008-08-12T15:37:00.000-05:00

I do want to add that I believe we should be discerning about things and I'm deeply saddened by the recent developments with Todd and his wife.

My prayers are for reconciliation in their relationship

I usually stay out of this stuff but I'm compelled...

2008-08-12T15:31:00.000-05:00

I usually stay out of this stuff but I'm compelled to say something regarding the comments I have just read.

I find that the majority of them are harsh, critical, and the spirit in which they are given in un-Biblical.

I respect people's right to disagree with Todd Bentley or Dr. Wagner but many of these comments are not given in a spirit of love towards our brothers in Christ, nor with a humble passion for truth.

To those who have commented and who plan to comment after me - I encourage you to speak with grace and love rather than with insults and 'rantings'.

Your brother in Christ.

Can I pay 600 dollars and become an Apostle? I wou...

2008-08-12T14:27:00.000-05:00

Can I pay 600 dollars and become an Apostle? I would very much like to have the power of alignment and the ability to loosen a cash flow that would allow me to live like Benny, in the lap of luxury. Alignment reminds me of that song... "When the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars and peace will guide the planets and love will steer the stars....