Plumbing 101

Toilet Vibrates When its Filling

2009-07-03T16:33:00.000-05:00

My toilet vibrates when its feeling, it seem its coming from the shut off valve, I took all the guts out and checked for blockages but it is still vibrating any help?

A fluttering of the rubber washer, or a rubber seal in the fill valve itself, fluttering, would be my guess.
You might try opening or closing the shutoff valve slightly to change the rate of water flow. I would try closing it part way.

Can't fix a leak. HELP !!

2009-07-03T16:30:00.000-05:00

I woke up one morning and my toilet tank (4 years old) was dripping water from the area where the water supply line goes in. I thought this must be a rubber washer issue so I replaced the rubber washer inside the tank around the ballcock shank. I connected water supply and turned water on. No success. Now I am getting even more water leak. I then replaced the water supply line which comes with rubber washers. I connected again...same thing. If I fill the tank ,with water line disconnected, there is no leak. I get the leak only when I turn water on and the tank starts to fill. This tells me it has to do with water pressure of some sort, or water getting obstructed when it enters the tank ? But the tank fills ok. I tightened both the mounting nut on the shank under the tank and the water supply nut at the shank. I have a diaphragm ballcock. Can anyone give any clues why water gushes when I turn water on ? I'm pretty handy but this one got me good !!

The only thing left to do is change out the ballcock assembly itself.There could be a flaw of some kind in the ballcock possibly a hairline crack in the plastic that only leaks under pressure and/or is being opened by the tightening of the nuts.

Also examine the porcelian all around where the ballcock passes through the toilet tank for hairline cracks or flaws in the glaze etc.

That is all that's left that you can do.

If you change the ballcock get a Fluidmaster 400 which just about any hardware store etc will carry.Has a great reputation,is easy to install and maintain.If the supply line you now have has become worn by the tightening you have done replace it.

Help with shower tub.

2009-07-03T16:26:00.000-05:00

I bought my house 5 years ago. Since the day we bought it, we knew one of the bathrooms would have to be gutted and redone. We hired a contractor friend to do the job last October. We've been happy with the results, until this past week. During a massive rain storm, my son showered, and we had a leak into the basement which was coming from the new shower stall. We didn't know if it was the bathroom, or the storm. At one point, we thought it might be the drain backing up from all the rain. My friend came to see and actually opened the wall on the outside of the shower (the hallway) to see if any water was getting behind the tile. This was done directly above the leak, but the shower had not been used in 24 hours. Nothing appeared wet, so we went on inspecting and eventually found an unglued vent pipe in the basement, and we assumed that was the problem. He agreed to come back over the weekend to redo the vent pipe (which was from the original bathroom - he never touched it).

Now.......fast forward to tonight. My son takes a shower, and it occurs to me to look in the basement, where I find new moisture, but the vent pipe is dry, so now we can rule out the vent joint being unglued. I come back upstairs, and decide to open up more of the wall, and I saw that the membrane under the shower base was holding about 2 inches of water between it, and the concrete board (basically the bottom row of tiles in the shower. It then occured to me that the big leak from Friday had to be caused by water overflowing the membrane.

The old bathroom had a plastic shower base, but the drain was centered over a joist, and whoever built it, had cut the joist. My friend repaired the joist, and to put the new drain off-center, he had to build the shower base as follows........

Plywood on the bottom. (3/4 inch)

Cement board on the walls (1/2 inch)

Rubber membrane over plywood and coming up about 8 to 10 inches over the wall.

Poured concrete over the membrane. Concrete was shaped so water drains to the middle.

Tile over the concrete, and tile over the concrete boards in the wall..

The joints where the floor meets the wall, and the walls meet each other are caulked, and everything else is non-sanded grout.

So now the question(s) are:

This membrane is not supposed to have 2 inches of water in it after someone showers, correct ?. The membrane should remain dry and only act as a barrier if something fails, like caulk, grout, drain, etc.......is that right ?. I just want to make sure I am not going to be told this is normal. Clearly, the leak came from water overflowing the membrane.

From what I listed above, does the method for building the shower look right ?. Was something missed ?

Thanks for the help. I can post pix if needed.

PS: In case the shower needs to be redone, I may want to give up on the concrete base and go back to the plastic base. Does anybody know if they make these with the drain off center ? It only needs to be off center about 4 inches to clear the joist.

From your description, the shower was not built correctly, and your pan is holding water. Water is not making it to the weep holes in the clamping drain due to lack of a preslope underneath the membrane (required by code and you do not have one), or the weep holes are clogged and water is not able to escape to the drain.

Tile, grout and caulk are not what makes your pan waterproof, the membrane is designed to do that. As water seeps through the grout lines, it should flow through the mud bed where it should reach the liner and then eventually make its way to the drain weepholes. It sounds like this is not happening with your shower.

Is there something wrong with my hot water heater

2009-06-30T09:20:00.001-05:00

I have family for the summer and I suspect my hot water heater isn't working quite right. I am suspicious that there is not enough hot water. We have a 50 gallon electric unit. I checked for continuity at both heating elements. I also have voltage at both elements. I turned off the heater and drained it to clean and noticed the water at the bottom wasn't hot. Is it normal for the water at the bottom to be cool or lukewarm?

it depends on if you had recently used hot water or if you have a hot water leak. if either of those are the case then yes. if not then you have a problem with the way the heater is working

New Gas Water Heater: How Long Can I Store?

2009-06-29T09:16:00.001-05:00

I bought a new gas water heater last year and never installed it because my current one is still kicking!

Can my new hot water heater deteriorate in any way if I let it sit around for another year or two or till whenever the old one konks out? It's still in the box.

Shouldn't hurt anything as long as all the plugs and caps are left in place.

But..if your old one is more than 10 or so years old, you could prob avoid a big problem (leaks, or no hot water at the worst time), and save some money by installing it now.

Water Heater Leaking From Drain Valve

2009-06-28T09:13:00.001-05:00

I've learned quite a bit searching the forum but really didn't come across my problem.
I've lived in this house for 2 years so I don't know how old the heater is nor could I find anything about it on the internet.
My 40G gas water heater (Sutherland's SN: SLNG 0498 150 444-
Model: CL21V40-5) is leaking out of the drain. It doesn't have a valve with a handle. It has a nipple coming out with a plastic piece with some kind of collar with a nipple attached on it. The collar-type piece looks like it's made to put a wrench on it.
I have a round half quart Tupperware bowl under it to catch the drips and I have to empty it about every 4 hours.
I bought a 3/4" PVC cap and was going to cap it but the threads are messed up so the cap won't go on.

That water heater was most likely made in April of 1998. The threads on the end of the lousy drain valve are a garden hose thread so a pipe thread cap would not fit. You can buy a brass cap with a garden hose thread in the garden section of the big box mega mart homecenter. Be sure to get a hose washer if the cap doesn't already have the washer.

The normal lifespan of a gas-fired water heater is 8 to 10 years so you are on borrowed time with that one. It may go for another ten years but I suggest that you plan on replacing it in the near future.

Route gas heater vent out the wall?

2009-06-27T09:10:00.001-05:00

My gas water heater vent currently goes up, angles to the left towards the center of the room, then straight up to the roof. It also connects with the central air furnace vent exhaust.

My question is, can i re-route it to go out the side of my house? Are there downfalls because of it? Code Violations?

This would get the venting pipes out from the middle of the wash room and make it look 'cleaner'.

Only if the manufacturer's instructions allow for sidewall venting may you do what you desire. I am assuming that you have a "standard" (i.e not power vent) water heater and if so then no, you cannot use sidewall venting.

Water Heater making "jackhammer" noise

2009-06-26T09:08:00.001-05:00

We've moved into a new house and we noticed that, in the morning hours, our water heater makes a loud noise that sounds like a jack hammer.

What's even more of a concern is that a few days ago the heater was leaking and I replaced it (thankfully it was covered under warranty). I was hoping that the replacement wouldn't have the same issue but, alas, it makes the noise as well.

My dad thinks it's air in the water line which makes sense since it is very similiar to the sound a faucet makes when it has been off for a long period. He thinks it happens in the morning because everyone is taking showers for work in the neighborhood and drawing from the water line; so the issue is not even the plumbing/water heater in our home.

That theory makes sense but doesn't ease my concerns that I will be replacing this w.h. again in the near future.

Does anyone have any experience with this and an explanation of what could be causing this sound? Is it detrimental to my w.h?

it is most likely not the water heater. the most common problem is a loose/bad washer or o-ring somewhere in your system. do some detective work and see if you can pinpoint the fixture or at least the area that causes the noise. is there a shower, toilet or sink that is used in the morning that might not otherwise be used ? if so start there and turn off the water to one fixture (toilets and sinks) at a time and see if the problem stops. very often it is the fill valve in a toilet or the stop valve for a toilet or sink that is the culprit. also washing machines sometime cause the problem as they, toilets and ice makers have quick closing valves in them and if that is the case, hammer arrestors may help

Hot water tank recommended brands?

2009-06-25T09:05:00.001-05:00

I need to change my gas-fired hot water tank - are there recommended/not-recommended brands anybody can suggest? Thanks.

Bradford-White is usually considered to be top of the line by professional plumbers. Unfortunately it is usually only available to professional plumbers.

Rheem or Ruud (same company) is considered almost as good as the Bradford-White. The GE sold by the orange big box mega homecenter is made by Rheem and is also a good water heater.

Whirlpool is the dog of all water heaters.

Water heater leaking from bottom

2009-06-24T09:03:00.001-05:00

I have a maytag series nine electric water heater that is about nine to ten years old. Water is leaking somewhere from the bottom. I need help.

It could be leaking where the heating elements go into the tank, but if not there, you need a new heater. It cannot be fixed.

Inconsistent hot / warm electric tank

2009-06-23T09:00:00.001-05:00

Electric tank, relatively new (bought a model home) so tank is 3 yrs. Pretty sure its a whirlpool as all our applicances are, but I can verify if that matters.

Intermittently hotwater tank will quickly or out of the gate run to luke warm water. There is no consistency as water will be fine for a week or month, then on an arbitrary day/eve have little hot water.

Household is busy 5 people, 2 dogs, I think its a 50 gal tank but cannot attribute loss of hot to too much pulling as some days we do laundry, dishwasher and then showers and its a crap shoot as to whether there will be hot or warm. Has occurred first think in the morning (when no hotwater is used overnight) and also early evening when kids shower after dinner. Of course we only notice the temp in the shower, so it may be occurring in laundry and I might not know.

Before I call a repair man, are there causes I can check/rule out? I checked the forum but most posts show steady degradation. This is not our case, as we are currently on a full week with no issues. Did not see this problem when we first moved in for a few months and when we did thought it may have been the settings, so adjusted temp. This worked for a while. Over the last 3 months of 15, has been more frequent but still inconsistent.

Not my speciality, but it does not sound like the heater, more like a mixing valve in the shower control. Do you notice this at the kitchen sink or bathrooms?

When you notice the drop in temp, do you take any action or does it just go away and how long to recover? If a 50 gallon tank gets cold, it will take awhile to recover and will affect the whole house.

Next time you detect a low temp, test the water everywhere you can. And check on the dogs, they can be sneaky.

Foamy Hot Water - ???

2009-06-22T08:39:00.001-05:00

I just closed on a house that constantly has "foamy" water coming out of all faucets when I run hot water. The water also has a faint, funny smell to it. Again - only when you run the hot water. If I run only cold water, both problems goes away. This leads me to think the problem is isolated to the water heater in some way. It is natural gas heater, and is city water. Spoke to a few neighbors they do not have the same problem.

I should say the house had been vacate and was "winterized" since November. And, of course, none of this come up during home inspections.

Any suggestions/ideas what could be causing these issues?

what does the smell smell like? is it kinds of a rotten egg smell? if so then it is probably in need of a new anode rod. if not and it is because they winterized the water heater then it should be food grade antifreeze so draining the water heater completely and flushing it out the flushing the lines real good should do the trick

Intermittent problems: gas HWH fails to stay on sometimes

2009-06-21T08:10:00.001-05:00

We have a 25 month old A.O. Smith PowerShot. Works nicely. Most of the time.

We notice that after periods of heavy use, such as filling up the bathtub, we notice that there is no hot water. Upon checking the heater, we see the LEDs on the front indicate "System in Lockout" (according to the manual).

The manual gives three possible reasons: 1) Gas supply is too low, 2) hot surface ignitor not positioned correctly, 3) Low voltage to the water heater, and 4) electric polarity to unit is incorrect.

Did I say three reasons? I meant four.

We can powercycle the unit to clear the lockout state, and sometimes it fixes itself, but usually it starts and stops, starts and stops again, then goes back into lockout.

When it gets into this state, it takes a few hours for it to recover, and everything is fine..

The fact that it gets better after a few hours makes me suspicious:

1) Does this have something to do with the pressure in the municipal supply lines (it always happens around "bath time" at night)?

2) Or is there something that needs to "cool down" in there, like the hot surface ignitor that trips some kind of safety sensor?

I am at my wits end, and tired of having to wait till 1 am to take a shower on nights when we have run the dishwasher

I found a line in a Maytag manual dealing with the same lockout code that attributed polarity issue or a faulty ground. I have 2 LP water heaters in series. The first heats the cold water and the second acts a reserve. (We like lots of hot water) The first one was having the lockout issue.

I checked the little green ground wire and it was contacting the cold water inlet pipe. There was some corrosion on the big nut connecting the inlet to the tank. Some of that corrosion got on the ground's insulation. The wire was compromised just enough to create a problem. I taped the bare spot and so far it works like a champ. Now I gotta figure out why the nut is corroding.

Best of luck! Hope you get it fixed!

Leaking T&P valve...

2009-06-20T08:06:00.001-05:00

I have a 3.5 year old 40 gallon 12 year Whirlpool water heater with the diagnostic box on top. For 3.5 years (installed new) we have had no problem with this tank but now the T&P valve is leaking. About a month ago we stated seeing a very small amount of water in the drain pan below the water heater. After inspecting we found it was coming from the T&P. I replaced the T&P but it didn't fix the problem. I called a plumber who replaced my pressure regulator at the road (adjacent to the city water supply/water meter). This didn't fix it either. Talked to a couple more plumbers and they said it was just bad luck and it was another bad T&P. Changed it again - still didn't fix the problem. Original plumber says we need to install a thermal expansion tank. Why would I have not had any problem for 3.5 years and now I need an expansion tank??? What could have changed with my system to make us need an expansion tank now??? Is there anything else that could be wrong with the water heater that could be causing the T&P to leak. It is just a small amount of water each day - maybe 1/2 a cup or so??? Can anyone explain? Please help!

what has changed is that the heater is getting older and thus is not as efficient as it was when new. you have a pressure problem and an expansion tank is about the only cure.

the t&p valve s a temperature and pressure valve. with just a little dribbling fom the valve it suggest a problem with the pressure in your system whcih is common to a closed system such as yours, if it was a temperature problem the water would be gushing out until the water in the tank was cool enough for the valve to close.

Water Heater crossover wire?

2009-06-19T08:03:00.002-05:00

My local inspector came to my neighbors to see if she had
some work with out permits. Turned out she did not but while he was there he inspected the water heater and told her
she needed a crossover wire installed. The water heater
is gas and not new. What is he talking about? I have seen
ground wires connected to the two inlet and outlet pipes before. could this be what he is talking about. He said it is a big safety proceedure and could save her life. Anyone know what he is talking about.

Much thanks for your input.

Yes thats what he means....its to complete the grounding path when water piping is used as a ground.

Split System Questions

2009-06-18T07:59:00.001-05:00

I currently have a split water heater system in my 2200 SF home utilizing one 40 gallon tank, supplying 1/2 the house and one 50 gallon tank supplying the other 1/2. Our children have finally flew the nest and I was thinking of replumbing the two heaters so only one is required to supply the whole house. I don't need 90 gallons of water for only 2 people. I was thinking of installing 2 outlet valves and a connector tube with a valve between the two systems to accomplish this.

Are there any watchouts that I need to be aware of?

The gas to the unused tank will be shut off, should I drain the tank, or leave it full?

if the heaters are next to each other you can do pretty much anything you want. just need to disconnect one heater and run the outlet (hot) pipe to the other heaters oulet pipe and then cap the inlet (cold) pipe. it should have a valve but i would not risk having an open ended valve especially in the house. you could also just add a tee and a valve at the top of the heater you arent going to use. the hot water from the othe heater needs to be blocked from entering the obsolete heater

if you are going to keep the 40 gal heater as an emergency heater i would keep water in it otherwise the tank will rust and you dont want that. just make sure to drain and refill it when/if you decide to put it back in service

Smell Gas near Water Heater

2009-06-17T07:57:00.001-05:00

When I walk out into my garage I smell gas from the water heater (even when I'm a good 5 - 10 ft away). Is this normal?

NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

turn the water heater gas off and call a plumber ASAP !!!!!!!!!!

Pilot goes out when thermostat/burner turned up

2009-06-16T07:54:00.001-05:00

I've read severl atopics about the pilot light going out when the button to light the pilot is released but thats not the issue I seem to be having. It a 5 year old GE smart series water heater and I am on LP. I have to wait about 15-30 mins to light it, sometimes more, in between tries. I've replaced the thermocouple but it didnt seem to do the trick. I light the pilot and it stays a blue flame, slightly anemic. Then as i turn the burner up it just suffocates or flames out. What would be the issue on this ? Would you suggest a whole new pilot assembly. Replacing the thermostat ? A valve possibly. I just hate to replace the whole water heater if I can fix it since its not that old. Feel free to ask any questions. Thanks !

You may want to have your gas supplier test the pressure at the WH. Seems like I remember seeing that can cause an issue as well. As the main burner comes on, it reduces the pressure enough that the pilot goes out.

The anemic pilot would seem to indicate low flow. I don't know whether the orifice can be cleaned or not..I would think so.

Oh...does the main burner come on full force?

Power vent or direct vent...

2009-06-15T07:52:00.000-05:00

I am considering installing 3 Rheem gt199 tankless water heaters. Can someone give me any suggestions as far as power or direct vent. All comments appreciated.

it just depends on your needs as far as which one you need.

Generally, a direct vent must be next to an outside wall or be connected to a chimney that extends 2-4 feet above roof peak (all gases and fumes from the burner will vent naturally). A power vent is used when the unit is put inside the home in a closet or on an interior wall. It must have venting to an outside wall and must have a blower fan to remove gases from the water heater so they don't back up into the house.

Water Heater Popping Sound

2009-06-14T07:45:00.002-05:00

For a last few days I have been hearing popping sounds from my gas based water heater, it sounds much like when you make pop corns in a microwave.

I did the research and followed the "flushing" process. I flushed the water for a few minutes until it was all clear. There weren't a lot of debris to begin with but there was some light-greenish stuff that came out initially. Before flushing I did put the heater on "vacation mode" in the morning so that I didnt drain very hot water and i did the flushing process in the afternoon.

However despite of flushing the problem hasnt gone away and the heater has only been ~ 3ys old. Do I need to may be do it again as I didnt flush it when the water was hot? Anything else I can try? Suggestions?

A couple of things to try.

First, put the WH in the 'vacation' mode so that the burner doesn't fire oof and flush right them. Hot water will clean better than cold water.

Also, check your water pressure. A $5 pressure guage from a local hdwr. store that attaches to a hose bibb is all you need to do that. Pressure should be about 50 to 60 PSI. If it's higher than that, see if you have a PRV that can lower the pressure. That will be located after the water meter and just before the main shut off valve for the incoming water. If the pressure is higher than about 60 to 65 PSI and you DON"T have a PRV, install one.

Water leaking into basement from 1st floor toilet

2009-06-13T07:43:00.000-05:00

After flushing the toilet sometime the chain impedes the flapper from closing. When this happens the water continues to run and has leaked down into the basement. Don't understand why. No leakage evidence at base of toilet. Thought running water would simply continue to run into toilet and out normal drainage pipe. Could problem be wax ring?

If you are satisfied the water is not draining/leaking from the 3 or 4" toilet drain plumbing it is possibly the wax ring. Has the base ever been rocky or tilt when some one climbs aboard? If so the wax ring can become distorted and water can eventually leak over time around the base as water runs through after a flush. Unless the bowl or trap is cracked no water passes through the floor wax ring flange except when flushed otherwise.

kitchen faucet screams w/hot water

2009-06-12T07:40:00.001-05:00

My kitchen faucet will make a very loud screeching noise when using the hot water with pressure.I have a single handle faucet and when i use the hot water turned up...it squeels loud,,if i slow the water down it will stop..I removed the handle and replaced the 2 rubber boot washers with the springs....didnt seem to help...If i lift the faucet spout(where the waters commong out)slightly while its making this noise it will stop...no other sink has this problem..If i turn the hot water on in the kitchen..IT WILL not make the noise until the water comes out hot....I will go back to scratching my head until I read your help...

My thought is whatever seals the spout at the faucet body has worn so the spout slightly sags and when that in combination with expansion from the heated water comes together under pressure somehow it makes this noise.

Try rebuilding or replacing whatever o-ring etc seals the spout to the faucet.If the spout itself has worn down either replacing it or depending on if you can find one and it's worth the cost you may have to live with it.

2009-06-11T07:38:00.001-05:00

We have a stand alone shower unit with 23 year old Kohler individual hot and cold controls. I am pretty well fed up with Kohler and the seeming endless part changes.

Question: Can I simply change the hot and cold valves to another brand or is the Kohler "housing" unique and can only accept Kohler fixtures?

You cannot use another brand's parts in a Kohler unit.If you're asking can you put some other brand's stems in the Kohler faucet body it's no.To change brands you have to change the entire unit.

Faucet stems are specific to brand and model and only exact duplicates will work as a replacement.No other brand or model will fit.

If you are having issues with the washers on the stems wearing out quickly you may have bad seats in the faucet.The seat it the part that the washer presses against to seal.When these become damaged they eat washer up quickly.Most stems now come with new ones.they are easy to change out with a 5 dollar seat wrench found at most any hardware store.

Installing Toilet Flange (3") in Basement

2009-06-10T07:36:00.001-05:00

I'm installing a new toilet in the basement. I have a 3" plastic pipe (black - ABS?) sticking up through the concrete floor.Flooring unfortunately has already been installed (5/8" thick engineered hardwood + 3/8" thick Delta membrane subfloor).
Do the 3" toilet flanges to fit INSIDE the 3" waste pipe exist? I can get the outside flange, but would like to avoid ripping flooring and chiseling the concrete floor around the pipe.
Alternatively do they have outside flanges for 3" ABS pipe with a relatively short collar (1" max) so I would not have to cut the concrete around the pipe?

If the 3" inside flanges do exist, is it OK to steal some 1/2" of the ID. This would leave only 2/5" for flow, although I noticed the toilet itself has only 2"-2.25" inch opening at the bottom.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

welcome to the wonderful world of remodeling. this should have been thought about and the flange installed before the floor. to do it properly and legally you are going to have to chip out enough concrete for the flange to slide down. it should not be that big of a deal as you only need about 1" of room, 1 1/2" at the most since you have 1" of flooring above the concrete

i would rather see you cut the flange down a bit before installing a 3" inside flange

American Standard?

2009-06-09T07:29:00.001-05:00

I have an American Standard wide spread faucet in my bathroom. It has cross handles on it. How do I remove those handles? I am stumped. On one of them the cross part that you turn to turn the water on and off broke off. I cant figure out how the rest of it comes off to replace it. If you can help that would be great.

There should be a small cap in the center on the top & a screw under it. It looks like a tiny hub cap. Use a screw driver to remove it.