Yes The Truth Hurts

Telion

2009-07-15T23:50:00.000-06:00

Josiah said...

Stelek, could you explain why Telion is so good with scouts the way you have for maugen ra? I would love to hear what you feel the best use for him is. I guess the obvious is giving your ML BS6 when you are tank sniping, but what would you prioritize for his sniping attacks? Also, how does his wound allocation work, do you put his wounds on after the opponent has allocated the rest?

Reply:

Certainly. Telion is the only way to make your only foot squad (in most marine armies) not completely suck.

Taking an objective is fine, but meh you can only do so much with a useless squad--and if you are going to spend points in 40K, you need a squad that has multiple threats.

Shooting, CC, and survivability are all things you want in these units.

Sadly, without a CC character in the unit you can't give scouts much in the way of CC.

Since they were nerfed down to BS3, they suck at shooting.

Telion makes them not suck so bad at shooting. They become, in essence, a set of wound counters for Telion and his ability to bestow BS6 or rending hits.

His primary use is as a sniper.

You get to allocate any wounds he causes on whatever models you want.

So picking off meltagunners and sergeants is what he does best.

Being able to boost the crap BS3 missile launcher to BS6 is good, even if the accompanying shot isn't so hot at taking down armor; it gives the scouts duality where they did not really have it before.

I hope that helps.

Stupid Eldar Trick # 317

2009-07-15T20:20:00.001-06:00

So, I've got my Eldar back. Some work still needs to be done on them,
but I figured I might as well peruse the contents of the Codex for some
funsies combos since nobody else seems to have done so.

There are plenty of powerful combos in the Eldar codex, but the one I
never see (due to the popularity of other HQ choices) is the one I'm
glad I don't see.

Jain Zar + Farseer + Full Harlequin squad.

Fortune + Doom on enemy units = bad day already.

Now combine fleet with IC status so even diff terrain really won't slow
you down (ignore terrain because of flip belts, ignored because of IC's;
yet slowest move is still the IC's, meaning you roll 3D6--at least, I
think that's how it would work).

While the FAQ says Exarch powers do not affect non-aspect warrior
squads, you'll find a careful reading of the War Shout power indicates
any squad fighting her still takes the test. Since she should be
fighting, stands to reason you'll have to take the test. Why does that
matter? Well it won't happen often, but any squad that blows it morale
check (no matter what squad it is barring Celestians and Fearless
squads), will be hitting you on 5+ because your lowest WS is 5. 1
against 5 is bad news.

Anyway, the Farseer and Jain Zar (mostly the Farseer though) give you
added punch against things like Dreads; and with both the Farseer and
Jain Zar available to take the first two shots from every torrent (2+
reroll and 4+ reroll are fun) while heavy weapons like lascannons go
into the regular Harlies (5+ reroll, or 4+ reroll with cover).

Harlies main problem in winning combats is of course Terminators. Jain
Zar hits all terminators on 3+, and wounds them on 2+ (and with a
re-roll to wound, every wound should land). Even Thunder Shield
terminators don't like Jain Zar. They can kill her, of course, but
combined with the mass of Harlies attacking the number of power
weapon/rending hits should be pretty high. Combine with the regular
wounds and it's a squad that can deal out the punishment.

Now the great thing is, you can 'split' this unit into two when you
really need to assault with the Harlies. Move Jain Zar and the Farseer
off by themselves, and form a 'super' character unit. Then the Harlies
go back to being flip belt enabled, and you assault a different unit
with Jain Zar and the Farseer. Or of course, just help the Harlies
assault part of the enemy lines outside of combat.

Jain Zar pretty much always has 5 attacks (she does not confer
counter-attack to non-aspect units, but she does not lose it).

Now while I grant she's an asset to a Seer Council, Harlies are a pain
in the ass to target where the Seer Council on foot is not.

That's why I like this trick. Toss in a couple Fusion pistols for the
ability to pop transports, and all of a sudden things aren't looking so
rosy for enemies. Know what is really neat about Flip Belt Harlies?
Looks to me like they can ignore Dangerous Terrain tests. So blowing up
a vehicle isn't a bad thing.

Why haven't I chosen another of the Exarchs? Simple really. Jain Zar
is S6. So is Maugen Ra, but this is a unit that will be fleeting
forward. For the same reason, Eldrad wasn't taken. Need to be able to
assault. Having a unit that can sit in midfield and be very difficult
to target, but able to reach anyone likely to fire at them--it's a great
thing. Fixing up survivability with a Farseer, Terminators with Jain
Zar, and Dreads with the Seer/Zar combo; well it's a good thing.
Remember Jain Zar has furious charge so is S7 on the charge. Not too
shabby when fighting MC, especially with Doom up. Harlies usually romp
through MC, because every wound caused is generally a power weapon rend;
but it's nice to have Jain Zar there to really put the odds in your favor.

That's my stupid Eldar trick for today.

Lijit Search updated

2009-07-15T17:31:00.000-06:00

Looks like John got the search from Lijit adhering to site colors and working better than before.

Hopefully we can get that recent readers thing added back, I liked it. :)

Anyway it appears the 'search' results are hosted by Lijit and thus might not be color codable so that horrid white might stay.

But it looks like people are using it, and it appears to be a better search than before.

Hopefully we can get that multiple tag search implemented but I'm not sure if it will work with me hacking the shit out of my template. lol

At any rate, it does look like putting in multiple search terms does pop up posts labeled appropriately, so for now maybe that will work for you guys and gals.

Let me know what you think of it so far please. :)

Re: Help for Vanilla Marines

2009-07-15T17:26:00.001-06:00

Pronz72 wrote:

>
> Hello guys!
>
>
> I have been closely following your site and really appreciated its philosophy.
> I'm really looking forward on getting your expert advice on a list.
> My buddy is a long time Space marine fan (a Dark Angel fan to be precise).
> Apparently some local players are "power playing" and not very "friendly/fluffy" playing, so the fluff list of my friend (based on the DA codex) always suffered.
> Finally he came to put together a list using the SM codex at 2000 pts (here in Tilea we game at this level) but with alternate success.
> So here's the list:
>
>     Vulkan
>     Belial
>     5x TH/SS termies (with Belial)
>     1x LR
>     2x MM/HF Dreads
>     1x MissileLauncher/Melta Tac (Sgts w/ power weapon)
>     2x twin LC Razorbacks
>     5 Scouts w/camo cloack and sniper rifles
>     5 Devastators w/ 4 LC
>     1 twinLC/LC Predator w/ Cronus upgrade
>     3x Assault bikes w/MM
>
> usually the lone squad is split up and assigned to the 2 Razorbacks.
> Sometimes he exchanges Belial and the Termies squad for 2 more missile/Melta tac squads with powersword sergeant (a choice I personally favour).
> Considering that the most like adversaries here are Chaos mech lists with 2/3 Land Raiders or mech Orks do you have any suggestions to improve the list or its use?
>
> thanks in advance
>
>
>
> Pronz72

Reply:

I'm glad you like the blog. :)

That list is a bit of a mess--too much battleforce, not enough duality and redundancy.

First, you cannot run Vulkan and Belial (I swear this came up before).

Second, if you are going to run Thunder Shield terminators at 2000 points you need two of those units (and the LR to match).

Check out Edwin's Marine list. It's got some range issues, but it's a solid list nonetheless.

If you are going to bring only 15 troops, you are going to get rocked in objective missions.

LC Razorbacks, the Devs, and the Chronus Pred are all way too spendy.

You need some lighter weapons fire with range, that is something your list could use. Two standard Preds would probably go a long way to making your list viable, and having at least two tactical squads in Rhinos would also help quite a bit.

Things like a Librarian with Null Zone are so effective because they force multiply your Terminators capabilities against super units that can hurt your army.

Anyway, if you run into lists with Chaos Land Raiders (known as Fail Raiders) and Mech Orks (known as Fail Orks) you should be thankful.

I hope that helps a bit. :)

Re: 2500pt marine list

2009-07-15T17:16:00.001-06:00

tully barton wrote:

I was updating my 2500 pt marine list and hoped you could provide some wargear tweaks. I had meant to playtest it at ardboys, but other commitments got in the way. It's a bit late now, but I still want to try this out. The base list is basically just Best Of + 2 th/ss termie units in LRs, but I had a few points left over and was unsure how best to use them. I took a 5th mm speeder in the list below, but adding some wargear instead is tempting too.

Vulcan 190

Librarian 100
null zone, quickening

10 Tactical Squad 205
flamer, multi melta, rhino

10 Tactical Squad 205
flamer, multi melta, rhino

10 Tactical Squad 205
flamer, multi melta, rhino

5 Scouts 100
missile launcher, sniper rifles, camo cloaks

Dreadnought 105
multi melta

5 Terminator Assault Squad 200
th/ss
Land Raider Redeemer 250
multi melta

5 Terminator Assault Squad 200
th/ss

2 Land Speeders 130
1x multi melta, 1x multi melta+heavy flamer

2 Land Speeders 130
1x multi melta, 1x multi melta+heavy flamer

1 Landspeer 60

multi melta

Land Raider Redeemer 250
multi melta

Predator 85
autocannon, heavy bolter

Predator 85
autocannon, heavy bolter

Total: 2500

Other options I was thinking of (in no particular order):
1. termie armor+ss for librarian

2. telion
3. heavy flamers for speeders and/or dreadnought
4. swap redeemers->crusaders

I like the idea of an extra mm speeder, but I tend to err on undergearing and regretting it later. What do you recommend?

Reply:

I'd add a Dread. Combine the two terminator assault squads into one and just combat squad them, saving you an elite slot.

I doubt I'd bother with the scouts at 2500 points--they are just a target in such a small squad at this level. Possibly bringing suicide melta IST squads in Chimeras (WH book) would be a better way to burn extra points.

You can always swap marines into the Chimeras and let the IST's take the marine rhinos.

Well anyway I think that's a better way to spend your extra points, increasing your killing power and survivability at the same time.

Yes!

2009-07-15T13:05:00.000-06:00

Go Philly!

Oh wait...that's a BAD thing. :P

Though this IS bad. Seriously, wtf? That's my backyard, where I grew up.

Man, that's some lame ass shit.

Re: 1500 Marines

2009-07-15T11:22:00.004-06:00

Robert Sztremer wrote:

Hi Jimmy,

First of all, I want to say thanks to Stelek, you, and the entire group running this blog. Ever since a friend mentioned it to me, I became a regular reader and even managed to put my two cents in on a couple of posts, LOL. Really, thanks for doing a great job to support 40k community.

I'm starting to build a Marine army from scratch. Here's where I'm heading with 1500 points:

HQ: Master of the Forge (Full Servo Harness, Power Sword) (115)

Elite: Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (115)
Elite: Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (115)
Elite: Dreadnought (Dreadnought CCW, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (115)

Troops: Tactical Squad (Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Razorback, Sergeant with Power Weapon) (230)
Troops: Tactical Squad (Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Razorback) (215)
Troops: Tactical Squad (Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Razorback) (215)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (70)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (70)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) (70)

Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons) (85)
Heavy Support: Predator (Autocannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons) (85)

I'm going to play it as a shooty list with a little bit of assault punch. I'd like to overwhelm my opponent with a large number of dangerous targets. All troops will be split into combat squads with meltagun and sergeant in transport and missile launcher out in the open sniping at the enemy. The HQ will join the combat squad in the Razorback with PW Sergeant. If the need/opportunity arises, they can jump out and kill a mediocre unit in CC.

I was thinking of maybe dropping one Dread and putting lascannons on the tac-squads and going with Missile Launchers on Land Speeders-- it would make the army more dangerous on long range, but it's one Dread less. Also, should I bother with power weapons and making HQ and one combat squad a bit assaulty? On the other hand, I'm really at a loss on what to do about the HQ. A Conversion Beamer? A Librarian? Above all, I'd like to keep my list highly competitive-- a lot of good players in my store.

I'd love to get your tips on above issues and in general on how to improve this 1500 list. Also, an idea on how to expand it to 1750, 1850, and eventually 2000 would be really great.

Many thanks in advance.

Robert

Reply:

First, you are welcome, we like to hear that people appreciate our work. Sorry it has taken me so long to get to some of these. I will hopefully clear my backlog soon.

My first question is how married are you to the razorbacks? If you are ok, but dont' try to make tac marines what they aren't: assaulty. I would put the MoF on a bike with conversion beamer which you can afford by dropping all the CC upgrades and the HF from the dreads. If you aren't you can go with rhinos and give the tac marines MM and MG or MM and flamer plus melta bombs on the sarge.

To go to 1750 add another pred, speeder, and a 5 man scout squad with camo cloaks, sniper rifles and ML. (See the best of SM list.)

1850 maybe add another speeder, and give the dreads HF.

2000 add another speeder, Telion and 2 more scouts.

Give it a try and let me know how you like it.
Jimmy

Re: 1000 points Iyanden

2009-07-15T10:52:00.003-06:00

paul shriar wrote:

I have two lists I'm considering at 1000 points ...

List One

Avatar

4 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Spear, Conceal

10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Spear, Conceal

9 DA, Exarch Dual SC, Bladestorm, Defend

3x Support Weapons, Shadow Weavers

Or ...

Farseer, Doom

2x 9 DA, Exarch, Dual SC, Bladestorm

10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Conceal

Wraithlord, EML. BL

3x Support Weapons, Shadow Weavers

The Support Weapons have actually done really well for me at 1000 points. Three pie plates a turn get annoying very quickly and they supplement my anti swarm.

List number one is short on bodies but tough as nails overall. Thre is something about fielding an Avatar and fourteen WG at 1000 points that is appealing. List two is a bit more conventional and not as top heavy on Elites and HQ.

Comments and please rip it apart.

Thanks ...

Bebe @ tauonline and 40konline

Paul for everyone else ...

Reply:

I am sure you already realize that 1000 points is very small to play Wraithguard. That said we will get to the lists.

The first one is very tough, but lacks for any kind of killing power. So long as your opponent stays more than 18" away all he has to worry about are your support weapons. That makes it really easy to concentrate firepower on them, and then take apart the rest of the army from range (Tau and IG will both just sit back and decimate you from across the table). It might take awhile but it will get done.

Second is similar you just added a Wraithlord to the ranged category. You might consider dropping the second DA for another Wraithlord. It isn't like you really need 3 troops at 1000 with Wraithguard in the mix. I would also drop bladestorm and the exarch (you have to in order for the second WL to fit).

As for both I think there are far more effective Eldar builds at 1000 points, but they aren't Iyanden. We are gluttons for punishment aren't we? ;)

Jimmy

Re: Tweaked Tau Army for Review

2009-07-15T10:21:00.003-06:00

David Gonzales wrote:

Been tweaking the Tau lists being batted around and came up with this:

Commander (joins big unit of Broadsides)
Twin/Linked Plasma
Shield Generator
Hardwired Drone Controller w/ 2x Shield Drones

3xBattle Suits w/ Plasma, Missile pods, Multi-Trackers

6 Fire Warriors

11 Kroot

11 Kroot

2 Piranhas w/ Fusion Blaster, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array

2 Piranhas w/ Fusion Blaster, Disruption Pods, Targeting Array

8 Pathfinders, Devilfish, Disruption Pods

1 Broadside w/ Team Leader, Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones

1 Broadside w/ Team Leader, Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones

3 Broadside w/ Team Leader, 3 ASS, Hard-Wired Target Lock, Hard-Wired Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones

1491 Even

Reply:

If your commander is joining the big broadside unit why does he need drones too? Lose those, and give the other broadside units ASS. Also if your commander is hanging out with broadsides having TL Plasma and no Target Lock doesn't seem great. Ditch the shield generator, he has drones already.

I reread this and either your math is way off or you only have 3 elite crisis suits. WTF? Drop the piranhas to 1 each and get more suits. Drop one of the Broadside units and get more crisis suits. The bread and butter of this army should be the crisis suits.

I would also go with 2 units of 2 Broadsides both with ASS and a Target Lock rather than a unit of 3. You know who is going to take all the hate when you clump them like that, and it doesn't take but killing the 2 drones and you are leadershipping and could run off the board.

As is this army will kill a bunch of mech and then get reamed by whatever is inside. If you go second, you won't even get that far. Anything that is not mech/elite will eat your lunch.

Hopefully that wasn't too harsh and will help.
Jimmy

Re: Dark Eldar

2009-07-15T04:43:00.001-06:00

Joe Wrote:
> Alright, I started following your blog a couple of weeks ago. I like the straight talk and no nonsense that you put out; I'm like that too normally. Yeah, I follow BOLS too and the B&C but I take everyone's word with a grain of salt; kinda why I'm one of those people the State of Florida call "Non-Party Affiliated". Anyways, I started collecting Dark Eldar seriously this past November because I wanted the dark horse and something different from what was always being run at my store (all Marines, no Xenos) and am finally getting around to really working on my army, I've done the list building and such and think I've got something pretty workable...that I'd consider taking to 'Ard Boyz if I'd had more practice with the army, but I'm more comfortable with my Marines. Anyways, going through the Codex repeatedly and such I just can't figure why Dark Eldar are so scary and how they are effective. I've been at tournaments when they've won, didn't play them though. I hear about how great they are in close combat, but I just don't see it in the numbers.
>
> I see 3 good weapons" Dark Lances, Disintegraters, Blasters. Splinter weapons are effectively useless; their low strength make them about as effective at causing wounds as a squad of ork boys shooting. The Raiders go down to bolter fire (hence why Nightshields are great, reduce that rapid fire) and yes the spamming of Lances and 3x Dis Ravagers can lay the hurt on Mech and MEQ. Wyches 4+ inv in CC is almost as good as TH/SS termies, but with so many builds granting stubborn or fearless they just don't seem worth it. So while its easy for us to get a first round charge, why bother? Instead just fly around in our aluminum cans just outside of rapid fire range dropping our heavy weapons, what about all that cover?
>
> I'm thinking of using some Raider Squads and moving only 6" so I can fire everything inside, generally at the 12" range so I can rapid fire 8 guys or so. Most of the lists online I find recommend using the minimum number of guys in a Raider, whether Wych or Warrior and spam the Raiders. Is that all there is to the army? It just doesn't feel right. I like them for the fluff (what little there is) and I like being competitive but as I said, the numbers just don't feel like they can hold it up in anything.
>
> Why are Dark Eldar so scary?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joe
>
Reply:

You missed Shredders. S6 blasts are fun.

Wyches are ass in CC imo. Always have been.

You've got it correct, fly around on the skateboards of suck and shoot
the other guy to pieces is and always has been the best option for the
Dark Eldar.

The reason Dark Eldar are so scary...well, it's complicated.

1) Nobody knows them very well. Opponents see them so rarely, they
don't know how to defeat them.

2) Dark Eldar can be great in CC, against non-CC troops caught in the
open. They are markedly worse for wear against mech armies, and people
with cover busting weapons tend to shred Wyches. Changes to CC make DE
CC assaults a pejorative affair. Sure you killed the enemy, and then
what? You die to lasrifles. Hey good job stupid.

3) Avoiding CC and instead blowing enemies out of their transports with
mass lance fire then hitting them with wound on 2+ templates is
awesome. Negating many armies shorter reach weapons makes you very able
to fry the enemy without worrying much about return fire.

4) The Webway Portal. Combine this with mass cover, grotesques, and
general lack of long range shooting in many armies...and you have a
special day coming your way. Having an entire army pop out of reserve
in midfield and alpha strike you makes going first nearly meaningless.

Dark Eldar are scary just like Eldar are. They outclass most armies in
the ways that count. Always have.

Note that Dark Eldar do not have meltaweapons nor really any
flamers--but I still consider them an excellent army, unlike say Orks or
Chaos Demons, who are missing melta and don't have lances to make up for
it, nor lots of templates that can keep firing (unlike flamer units
which generally fire once, kill their target, and then in turn are
killed--hey good job stupid, go sit with the wyches, you're on a time out!).

Hope that explains things for you a bit better.

Re: Eldar 1750pts

2009-07-15T04:24:00.001-06:00

Josh Holt wrote:

HQ
Farseer w/ Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Jetbike, Doom, Fortune, Mind War
Warlocks x10

all w/ Jetbikes
x3 w/ Destructor
x2 w/ Enbolden
x2 w/ Enhance

Eldrad (I wondering if he is out of place but I think he is a very good support unit for the army but comes with a huge price tag)

Troops
Guardian Jetbikes x6 w/ x2 Shuriken Cannons
Guardian Jetbikes x6 w/ x2 Shuriken Cannons
Guardian Jetbikes x3 (These stay in reserves and come on to contest or capture an objective towards the end of the game.
Rangers x5 w/ Pathfinders (Sit on an objective and pick off flamer templates and other things coming for my objective and are fortuned with their 2+ cover save)

Heavy Support
x3 Fire Prisms (I think these guys can do alot with the combo of the 3 plus Eldrad)

Point Total is 1749

Is it good or does it have some errors (I probably murdered this list... and not in a good way lol) ? I have heard good things of this type of list...

Reply:

Drop the small Guardian Jetbike unit, get more Rangers for that unit.

The Prisms should have Shuricannons if at all possible.

Eldrad is out of place. Try Maugen Ra instead. Yes, really.

Drop Mind War, get both sets of Runes.

Give it a whirl, report back!

Ravenwing: Death to Guard!

2009-07-15T04:22:00.001-06:00

So, you're a Dark Angels player, are you?

Everyone else has new Codex-itis.

You are sick of being called the 'Gimp' Angels.

Now the Guard are out, and it's disgusting!

Fine, fine. Here, it's time you came into your own.

2000 Pts - Dark Angels Roster - Ravenwing

1 Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing @ 205 pts (...on Jetbike)
1 ...on Jetbike (Bolt Pistol; Frag Grenades; Jetbike; Krak Grenades;
Power Armour; Raven Sword)
1 Adamantine Mantle
1 Iron Halo
1 Jetbike (Plasma Cannon; Twin Linked Storm Bolters)

1 Upgraded Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 410 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike;
Land Speeder)
5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5; Apothecary)
1 Apothecary
1 Narthecium
1 Reductor
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)
1 Land Speeder (Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter)

1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 395 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike; Land
Speeder)
5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)
1 Land Speeder (Assault Cannon; Heavy Bolter)

1 Ravenwing Attack Squadron @ 295 pts (Bike Squad; Attack Bike)
5 Bike Squad (Bolt Pistol x5; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
Armour; Teleport Homer; Meltagun x2; Twin Linked Bolter x5)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Teleport
Homer; Melta Bombs; Twin Linked Bolter x1)
1 Attack Bike (Bolt Pistol x1; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power
Armour; Teleport Homer; Twin Linked Bolter x1; Multi-Melta)

Total Roster Cost: 1995

Just pray you get to go first against any mech army.

You can't reliably handle CC and hordes suck, but you will terrify every
mech player on the planet.

"Wait...all of that is scoring, and it all scouts?"

Re: Army Scaling help from one philly phan to another (40k related)

2009-07-14T20:31:00.001-06:00

Jim Hogate wrote:

Stelek,

Thank you and your friends work on the blog. I am starting a series of campaigns for 40k with my friends that will involve different point levels. 1000, 1250, 1500, and so on all the way up to 2500. The army I use for 2500 will have to be built up from the 1000 point army I use. My question is about army scaling. Up and down. What is the general thought process in taking an army from 2k to 2.5k or from 1750 to 1.5k or even down to 1k? Should there be X amount of troops to Y amount of elites/fast attack/heavy?

Thank you again for your help (and Fly Eagles! Fly!),

Jim.

Reply:

At 1k, take whatever you want. Just remember unless you like wasting money, buy things you'll use later. Things like troops with anti-tank capability and transports.

From 1750 down to 1.5k, you will jettison all toys and big nasty things immediately.

To go up from 2k to 2.5k, you will immediately add all toys and big nasty things.

At 1500, 2 troops is sufficient. Above that, you want 3. If your troops are actually GOOD, then by all means bring 4.

Most are shit, due to bad GW design decisions. So they are required but are a big hole in your wallet and your points available to spend on things that are actually fun to play with.

Hope that helps.

GO EAGLES! =D

Dark Elves

2009-07-14T10:51:00.002-06:00

Steven Attoe wrote:

Hi Stelek,

Im an avid 40k player, and would probably pidgeon hole myself in the powergaming percentage of the population - however, i'd like to start playing Warhammer with a competative army that doesn't scream CHEESE.

Here's the list that i put together, what do you think?

Dreadlord - Armor of Eternal Servitude, Pendant of Khaeleth, Hand Weapon, Great Weapon, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield

Death Hag - Cauldron of Blood

Death Hag - Rune of Khaine, BSB, Banner of Hag Graef

Noble - 2 Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Ring of Hotek

20 Corsairs - Full Command, Extra Hand Weapon

10 Crossbowmen

10 Crossbowmen

6 Harpies

6 Harpies

20 Black Guard - Full Command including Kouran

2 Boltthrowers

War Hydra

My idea being that the BSB and Dreadloard ride with the Black Guard making a pretty darn unstoppable and hard hitting unit - the Dreadlord himself being pretty much invincible. The Corsairs will ride alongside them with the Noble. 20 Crossbowmen and 2 Throwers for ranged support and the Hydra is pretty much a no brainer.

There are 2 things im unsure of - The army only has 2 blocks of hard hitting infantry, would this be detremental?

Would it be worth combining the harpies so that after they have charged any warmachines, they still will have enough numbers to cause flank and rear denial.

Thanks,
Steve

Reply:

Too late?

I'll give you my take on your line units--your army isn't horrible, but it's got some flaws behind the reasoning.

Corsairs are flank and suicide units--they are not mainstay units. Shitty toughness plus shitty saves equals bad news for mainstay units.

Black Guard are elite units, meant to be run in small units. They should have a little bit of padding, but they are basically a tarpit unit. They are very capable of doing lots of damage, but really...only on the charge. Even basic troops have a very good chance of fucking them up. Again with the shitty toughness and shitty saves issue.

Personally, I think you should run double hydras or quad bolt throwers and if you think you can avoid being labeled cheesemeister by bringing both--try neither. Not sure how competitive it'll be then though.

Just bringing a Cauldron will probably get you that moniker once you figure out how to use it.

Anyway, take a look at my Dark Elf army. Note, you've chosen the wrong army to avoid being called funny names.

Even built poorly, you have a decent chance of zapping many armies to death with the inkies.

Re: Crimson Fists Drop pod army

2009-07-14T08:44:00.001-06:00

Sven Natas wrote:

After doing some reading today and the looks I got for how stupid my comment about not wanting to use special characters from when we were all talking on friday. I decided to look at some of them that are in the Space Marine Codex. Pedro is 100% the way I like playing my marines. How dose this list look to you? This is for August.

Pedro Kantor

3 squads of:
10 Sternguard Veteran Squad: Bolter (x3); Combi-Meltagun (x4); Heavy Flamer (x2)
      Sergeant: Bolter; Power Fist
      Drop Pod
4 squads of:
10 Tactical Squad: Bolter (x7); Flamer; Multi-Melta
      Drop Pod

Reply:

I can't give advice out for tournaments I'm running, maybe visitors can give you some feedback. :)

Sorry.

Re: Making Eldar Wraith-stuff Work

2009-07-14T08:42:00.001-06:00

Raptor1313 wrote:

I'd swear I sent an e-mail back when you were working on the Guard codex, though I think it got lost in the internet's constituent tubes.

That aside, I'm a fan of the sculpts of Wraithguard and Wraithlords, and I've been trying my damnedest to make them work for me.

I'll start with the Wraithguard. I like the durability; especially a 10-man unit with cover and Fortune up. They're a solid core for the army, but my biggest problem is that they're just not that killy. They fold to powerfists, and unless they can range in their amazing 12" guns, they don't do a ton. 8-10 wraithcannon can do a number on vehicles, at the least, and they can hold in assault if there are no powerfists, but I feel like they pretty much require a babysitter nearby to bail them out of an assault. If they got bogged down in assault, they're not going to sit their T6 asses on an objective.

Plus, they look cool.

The last Wraithguard-centric army I ran at 1850 was...

HQ

Eldrad (210)

Avatar (155)

Troops

10 Wraith Guard; Spiritseer w/ Conceal (396)

8 Rangers (152)

10 Dire Avengers (120)

Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)

10 Dire Avengers (120)

Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)

Heavy Support

Wraithlord w/ Bright Lance, EML, 2 flamers (155)

Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon (125)

Fire Prism w/ Shuriken Cannon (125)

Total: 1848

Basically, we have an objective camper with the Rangers, then the Wraith-stuff, Eldrad, and Avatar all band together while the tanks do what tanks do: Avengers put out anti-infantry fire, and prisms can hunt infantry/tanks if needs be.

I suppose I could always drop the Avengers for Fire Dragons and beef up the tank-killing power, but that cuts down on the troops available.

The other is the last time I tried to run triple Wraithlords. I think it needs some tweaking, but here's what it looked like.

Triple-Wraithlord Surprise

HQ

Avatar (155)

Farseer w/ Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Guide, Doom (145)

Elites

6 Fire Dragons (96)

Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)

6 Fire Dragons (96)

Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)

Troops

8 Rangers (152)

10 Dire Avengers (120)

Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)

10 Dire Avengers (120)

Wave Serpent w/ Shuriken Cannon, TL Bright Lance (145)

Heavy Support

Wraithlord w/ Bright Lance, EML, 2 flamers (155)

Wraithlord w/ Scatter laser, EML, 2 flamers (135)

Wraithlord w/ Scatter Laser, EML, 2 flamers (135)

Total: 1849

The problem I've had with it thus far is that the Wraithlords pretty much HAVE to hang around the Farseer's Wave Serpent (..since he is emphatically NOT walking solo...). I've found that I just can't STAND an all-foot Wraith-list; I tried it a while, and it took one game of table quarters + the other guy putting his objective at the far back for me to say 'bugger this.'

At any rate, your help and time is always appreciated.

-Raptor1313

Reply:

Run Eldrad instead. While the Avatar is cute, the only reason to take him is why you bring Creed in an IG army--to bolster an infantry heavy army. Since you don't have one...

Now if you want 3 Wraithlords, fine. Just give up on Wraithguard. Phil Kelly decided not to make them worth taking, so they aren't worth taking.

Try this instead.

1850 Pts - Eldar Roster - Wraith 1850

1 Eldrad Ulthran @ 210 Pts

5 Harlequin Troupe @ 178 Pts
   Fleet; Flip Belts; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Holo-Suit (H-S); Close Combat Weapon (x1); Harlequins Kiss (Hkiss) (x4); Fusion Pistol (Fp); Shuriken Pistol (x4); Hallucinogen Grenades
   1 Harle Shadow Seer @ [62] Pts
      Psyker; Veil Of Tears ; Fleet; Flip Belts; Furious Charge; Hit & Run; Holo-Suit (H-S); Harlequins Kiss (Hkiss); Fusion Pistol (Fp); Hallucinogen Grenades

5 Fire Dragons @ 235 Pts
   Fleet; Fusion Gun (Fg); Melta Bombs
   1 Wave Serpent @ [155] Pts
      Energy Field (Wave Serpent); Spirit Stone (V:SpStn); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); TL Bright Lances (TL-BL)

5 Fire Dragons @ 235 Pts
   Fleet; Fusion Gun (Fg); Melta Bombs
   1 Wave Serpent @ [155] Pts
      Energy Field (Wave Serpent); Spirit Stone (V:SpStn); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); TL Bright Lances (TL-BL)

9 Pathfinders (Rangers) @ 216 Pts
   Fleet; Infiltrate; Move Through Cover; Stealth; Ignore Difficult Terrain; Pathfinder Stealth; Scouts; Pathfinders; Shuriken Pistol (Sp) (x9); Ranger Long Rifle (RLRifle)

6 Guardian Jetbike Squadron @ 207 Pts
   Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Turbo-boosters; Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Cannon (SCan) (x2); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x4)
   1 Warlock @ [55] Pts
      Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Psyker; Destructor ; Turbo-boosters; Rune Armour (RAmr); Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x1)

6 Guardian Jetbike Squadron @ 207 Pts
   Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Turbo-boosters; Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Cannon (SCan) (x2); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x4)
   1 Warlock @ [55] Pts
      Unit Type: Jetbike Infantry; Psyker; Destructor ; Turbo-boosters; Rune Armour (RAmr); Eldar Jetbike (EJB); Shuriken Pistol (Sp); Witchblade (WB); TL Shuriken Catapult (TL-Scat) (x1)

1 Wraithlord @ 120 Pts
   Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; WraithSight; Flamer (x2); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); Scatter Laser (SctL)

1 Wraithlord @ 120 Pts
   Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; WraithSight; Flamer (x2); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); Scatter Laser (SctL)

1 Wraithlord @ 120 Pts
   Unit Type: Monstrous Creature; Fearless; WraithSight; Flamer (x2); Shuriken Cannon (SCan); Scatter Laser (SctL)

Total Roster Cost: 1848

Advance the Serpents as needed to deliver the Fire Dragons. The Wraithlords are torrent units. Think of them as slow Devilfish but with S6 weapons instead of 5, and you'll have your tactics down.

Hide Eldrad with the Pathfinders, unless you fear them being run off then hide him with the Harlies. The two units are mutually supporting. With a couple fortunes you can reduce your opponents targets to:

Wave Serpents, Fortuned Bikers behind cover, Wraithlord, and 2+ save Pathfinders.

I think it's a good way to make the Wraithlords work. You have Warlocks spread out in the army to make the Wraithlords not be retards.

DoW II

2009-07-14T08:24:00.001-06:00

So I finished up DOW II.

My final impressions are:

1) The last boss getting nuked by my orbital bombardments from my
now-crashed cruiser was...silly and unsatisfying.

2) I found the 'defend' missions quite fun, when I had it figured out
on how to win those missions.

3) Terminator armor came way too late in the game to be any fun.

4) I've heard there is an Avatar and despite doing every mission
possible, I never ran into it. Sad really. I'm sure obliterating it
with an orbital bombardment to save me an hour of running in and out
would have been awesome.

Better than I expected when I sucked it up and gave it a try.

Chaos Gate is still better.

Now that's funny

2009-07-14T02:26:00.002-06:00

Man, who thought the hacks would go this far. lol

New search

2009-07-13T23:58:00.002-06:00

Since Edwin (and many others) are correct about how difficult it is to search the site, I added a new search tool. Kudos to John for doing (nothing) and motivating me (with an enrage timer of...months). ;)

Let me know what you think.

Edwin's Ard Boyz Battle Report - Game 1

2009-07-13T19:51:00.006-06:00

If you are having trouble seeing the pictures, expand your browser a little, I don't want to make them so small that you can't see any details.

If you have been reading other Ard Boyz posts on this blog, you may already know that I played at Dragon's Keep in Provo, Utah for the first Ard Boyz tournament.

This is my first attempt at a battle report and hopefully it can give some insight on multiple things including list building, tactics and whatnot. Obviously any mistakes I make are made on purpose to prove some point because I'm the perfect tactician ;).

For those who don't know the first mission in there Ard Boyz here's the run down:

It's a generic 12" setup on the long table edges. There are 5 objectives, one is placed in the center and two are placed by the players in their own deployment zone and cannot be within 6" of the table edge or 12" of another objective. To get the full points for a Massacre you need to control more objectives than your opponent and also have more Kill Points. The first round is night fight and the game lasts 6 turns.

My opponent was Thomas, you can see him on the left and he brought his Voodoo doctor Bill who you can see on the right.

Here's the list he ran:

3x Land Raider w/ extra armor and HK missile
1x Land Raider Redeemer with multimelta
2x 6 man assault termi squads with TH / SS
1x 5 man assault termi squad with TH / SS
2x 10 marines with melta and multimelta in a rhino with an HK missile
1x 8 marines with nothing special
Chaplain with terminator armor and some random stuff I can't remember

Here's the List I ran:

CCS with 3 meltas and an Astropath in a chimera with a hull HF
2x Veteran squads with 3 meltas in a Chimera with hull HF and dozer blade
2x IST squads with 2 meltas
Hellhound with hull Multimelta and dozer blade
2x squads of 3x Vendettas
2x squads of 2x Leman Russes with hull HF
1x squad of 2x Leman Russes with hull Lascannon

Thomas won the roll and decided to go first.

Here is a picture of Thomas' deployment:

On the far right is the LR Redeemer which contained the 5 man termi squad and the Chaplain. The next LR to the left contained one of the 6 man terminator squads and the one on the far left had the remaining terminator squad. The rhino in the center had the basic 8 man marine squad and the land raider and remaining rhino both had the remaining tactical squads in them.

You can see the objectives outlined in Red and his troops are outlined in blue for reference.

So having seen his deployment my plan was to deploy on the left side to quickly disable the far left land raider and force the far right land raiders to come at me. My plan was to use the battlecannons on my 6 leman russes to quickly kill the rhinos and troops inside of them and cripple his ability to capture objectives.

Here you can see my deployment:

The person in red on the left is me posing with my Vendetta Wall. On the picture you can see both my vendetta squads preparing to scout move.

There is a squad of Leman Russes off picture on the left hugging the edge of the terrain with a Vet chimera hiding behind them. The hope was that he would come be tempted to come at my LRs and I could sacrifice the squad of vets to strand that termi squad with chaplain across the board. If he chose to ignore them and rush for my objectives (which i placed 12" from each other int he center of my deployment), I could drive the Leman Russes forward and blow away troops.

The LR squad with the lascannons was placed on the far right side of the picture and the other LR squad can be seen near the center. The remaining vet squad and ccs were waiting behind the building to jump out when needed. The hellhound is near them ready to rush forward and start causing havoc. I was willing to sacrifice both vet squads to cripple the LR because I was confident my 6 battlecannons could deal with a few rhinos and marines.

This picture better shows my deployment, the Vendetta squad scouted forward exactly 12" from the Land Raider to drop the IST in one of them on the Lander Raider and block movement on his next turn. The other Vendetta squad just repositioned slightly to be as far as possible to the left.

Here is the damage done during Thomas' first turn. He drove the LRR on the far right directly forward and his shots bounced off my LR squad. He opted to only drive his rhinos slightly forward and pop off some HK shots. The other 3 LR decided to just stand there and take shots at me. He rolled high enough for all of his squads to see me through the night fight. He then proceeded to wreck all 3 of my Vendettas who scouted forward. My fancy photoshop work should help show where things moved and what died.

I expected my opponent to drive quickly at me so the termies could get out and devour my army, so this lack of movement was pretty surprising. I moved the Hellhound forward and gave it cover from the right side of the field using the downed Vendetta. The Chimera ran behind the building as to not be brought down. The IST's from the wrecked Vendetta moved back towards the building and closer to the objective. My Vendettas moved forward slightly so I could actually get a shot off through the night fight. I managed to totally fail all might night fight rolls and did nothing with shooting.

His LRR decided to move only 6" and take shots from the MM and the AC at my Leman Russes. The two center LR only moved forward 6" and took shots with their LC at my Land Raiders (taking out one battlecannon and my remaining Vendetta Squad, destroying two lascannons from 1.

My Vendettas moved up slightly to give my Leman Russes on the left room to move into a position where I could target the Rhino hiding in the building on the objective. They failed to do anything.

The CCS moved up behind the trees to punch a hole in any Land Raiders that decided to move forward if he ever planned to. It popped smoke. The Vendettas shot at the leftmost Land Raider managing to destroy the right lascannon. Both the center squad of russes and the right squad shot at the rhino that rushed up the center. I managed to stun it. The rightmost Vet squad moved a bit to the left to get in better position to hit whichever LR zoomed forward, it also popped smoke.

The Hellhound got in half range of the LR its pointing at and missed.

Sorry about the horrible blur on this picture. He moved his Redeemer forward 12" this turn but for some reason that eludes me, he didn't charge me with the termis inside of it (maybe he took the advice of "don't get out of your transport" to heart). It fired and did nothing with the multimelta.

The other two LR both moved 6" and turned toward my Vendettas in an attempt to take them down. The rhino which I stunned had extra armor and quickly moved back out of danger. The Land Raider proceeded to destroy 1 more Vendettas.

The pictures are somewhat overlapping because I forgot to take one.

On my turn I moved the Hellhound over to the other LR because I wanted to make sure and have a 12" move to be hit on 6's. Everything else stood still. I shot the hellhound and immobilized the LR. My LR on the right moved forward to block the LRR and to get a side shot on the retreating rhino. I managed to destroy its weapon ,whoopee. The Vendetta lascannons once again bounced off of the Land Raider.

My vets on the right decided to get the fuck out of there since everything I have is failing to actually do damage and the survival of my troops is looking bleak. The other Vet squad rushes forward next to the CCS.

The LRR decided to go through terrain and ignore my Russes. The other Land Raider moved forward 6" and took a las shot at my Russ squad doing nothing. The leftmost LR fired at my Vendettas and managed to take another one down. The middle LR did shot one shot at the Vendetta and one at the Hellhound, it failed to do anything.

In this picture you can see my LR moving another 6" forward to get close to the opponents objective and to take more shots at that seemingly invulnerable rhino.

Lots of Action in this picture. I moved my hellhound 12" again waiting for him to finally get out of that LR and charge. I fired at the LR and shook it. The CCS moved to point blank range of the LR and unloaded its cargo who then used Bring it Down to fire 3 meltas at the Land Raider, I once again failed to do anything, stunned, shaken, shaken, grats me.

The left Vet squad moved forward to hopefully jump the LR holding troops and the other Vet squad moved back to safety. The Russes in the center moved forward to shoot the rhino... again. I shot both Leman Russ squads and by some miracle I managed to immobilize it again finally getting me my first kill of the game, the troops pile out. Once again the Russes on my left side failed to do anything to that rhino hiding in the building and my Vendetta bounced off the Land Raider in the center again.

Turn 5

On his turn, Thomas finally unloaded his termis in the immobilized LR and charged my Hellhound, managing to shake it. The troops who got blown out their rhino moved and then ran onto the objective. The troop containing LR moved forward onto the objective. The LRR moved off the hill and shot at my Chimera, doing nothing. The LR that I failed to melta to death unleashed its termis who promptly destroyed my CCS and the Chimera and consolidated into the trees.

The IST squad you see moving on the bottom left got out last turn but I don't want to go back and photo-shop it in.

In this action packed picture, you can see my scramble to minimizing the losses. The Vendetta on the Left moves 12" to get in range of contesting an objective. The IST's both run closer to the objectives. The Vet squad near the center unloads and moves towards the objective while their Chimera valiantly forms its portion of the wall keeping his crap away from my objectives.

The Russes split up to form a barrier just small enough so the LR can't fit and the termis would have to go through terrain to get to me. The Vet squad on the table edge moves their chimera back to the semi-safe objective. The Leman Russes on the Right move up 6" and shoot down 7 of the 8 Marines remaining in the trees on the objective. The hellhound moves 18" right behind the LR in preparation to contest objectives on the last turn.

The Russ Squad on the Left fires into the rhino behind the building and manages to stun, immobilize, destroy its weapon and something else denoted by the 4th counter, ya... it's still alive. Here's a pic of its invincible glory:

So here comes the last turn, our last efforts to grab objectives and get as many Battle Points as possible:

His troops back in the building get out and destroy my Hellhound and the immobile LR takes out my last Vendetta. His two middle LR decided to try and take out my Russes. Inexplicably, the troop one moved off the objective so he no longer contested it. The LRR moves up 1" away from both my Russes (the dice denote the Russe's position) and close enough to contest the objective. The las LR take down one more of my Russes and shake the other one. The Termis in the trees charged the Chimera and took it out. Random H.bolter fire hit my IST's and i went to ground.

Heres my last turn and attempt to grab less of a loss. The LR moves out of the way (note its out of coherency with my other one which is totally cheating and I didn't notice until looking through these pics later) to give room for the Vets and stuff. Had I not been cheating they would have moved along the blue line.

The remaining mounted vets moved up 12" and unloaded in hopes I might take out the Raider and later hurt the guys inside (fat chance). The other Vets also moved forward 6" to get their meltaguns in range. A searing volley of 5 short range meltas go out to the Raider, 4 hit, 3 pen, it's still alive. The Russ on the far right side zooms forward 6+d6" and I manage to roll a 6 and get in range to contest that objective.

The far left Russes take shots at the now-unloaded marine squad and down all but 4 and they don't run away :(.

In the end, we each had 1 objective, the other 2 were contested and the middle one had no troops on it. It ended up in a minor victory (13) points for Thomas and a minor loss (7 pts) for me because we had equal objectives but he had more KP

POST GAME ANALYSIS:

Thomas is primarily a fantasy player and quickly admits that 40k is just not his game. This happens to be his first ever 40k win, I'm honored. That can be seen by some of his tactics. Had he ran forward from the start with all of his termis, he would have quickly torn through my army and gotten a massacre.

My inability to roll well at times was certainly proven in this game where the only vehicle destroyed was because I immobilized an already immobilized and weaponless RHINO. I had plenty of penetrating results but never managed to actually destroy any of the vehicles, it was rather irritating. I have to say im proud of myself for not freaking the fuck out when my luck is so horrible like I might otherwise.

At first I thought the scout Vendetta move may have been a mistake but it was only a mistake because Thomas opted to shoot me rather than move forward and crush me horirbly. I stand by the idea that the scout move is worthwhile if he had played his army more effectively. In the end a lot of events on both sides would have shifted the game around (me moving 12" with the Russ, him managing to kill 2 of my contesting vehicles, him moving off the center objective, different things not running away, etc.) which just goes to show how big a difference some things can make when it comes to a tournament. In fact, on his next game, Thomas went from a win to a loss on the last turn because two of his terminator squads ran off the table.

Overall I think my initial tactic was rather sound but not being able to roll statistically against his Land Raiders is what really destroyed my ability to pull out a massacre. Thomas was fun to play against and the one rules debate we had was resolved fairly quickly (can't go back and re-move stuff after you have moved on to other units), if you haven't figured it out by now, his brother Bill is a Voodoo Doctor because he "blessed" Thomas' dice at the beginning of the game and I'm sure he had some hand in my inability to kill vehicles.

Debate: MrPants vs Stelek

2009-07-13T17:34:00.002-06:00

Email in from MrPants:

I'm concerned about the way you're going about criticizing the tournaments other stores are running. I can't comment on End Zone cause I've never been there, but I know from my time down at DK last year that they at least cared about people having a good time. Maybe things have changed over the last year, but the 'Ard Boyz at DK was a hell of a lot better run than the 'Ard Boyz at MG. The problem I see with your comments is they come across as personal attacks whether they are or not. How is that a good thing? It's not likely to get them to change. If anything, it'll put them on the defensive and cause them to ignore your suggestions which are good for the tournament scene. I also worry that the way you come across online may be keeping people away from MG as casual players and from the tournaments. Not even the last 40k tournament was full ,and fantasy and FOW are a joke right now. I honestly thought twice about going to the first tournament you ran because I wasn't sure what to expect based on some of your past... "exploits." I can see some people being hesitant to attend if they think they'll end up being mocked and criticized if they don't get everything exactly right with their list building and rules knowledge (which does tend to happen on the blog at times).

I understand your points and I agree with the vast majority of them, but can't you be more constructive with your criticism? The tone of your posts would put me off from anything you had to say if I didn't know you in person and have experience with your tournament system. I think you need to work with the other tournament organizers in Utah to improve the scene around here rather than making these accusations that aren't going to make you any friends in the other stores. Even if they agree with your points, they're likely to close ranks against you which isn't going to do anyone any good.

Anyway, just something from someone who's opinion might have at least a little value for you. Less 40k makes me sad. More makes me happy (and more FOW players on the weekends would make me REALLY happy). I can do without more fantasy, but maybe Jon will be less disruptive if he happens to get more games in.

Reply:

How long have I been attending shitty tournaments in Utah? A decade? More than that?

I got so sick of it, I decided to spend my own time and figure out how to run a decent tournament so others wouldn't have to suffer through my misery.

I have emailed exactly how I run tournaments including scenarios, excel files, and lengthy descriptions on how best to handle conflicts and rules issues to every stores listed email address in the whole state.

Two responses were:

"Thanks, but this is too complicated for our players."

"Who the hell are you to tell us how to run a tournament? Fuck off."

Am I supposed to be responsible for other stores tournaments as well? Should I help them create a community willing to build terrain, improve their gameplay, teach them the rules, and then show up to run their tournaments too?

How about I do enough. If I put the info on this site and they ignore it, and we go and their tournament still sucks ass--I should just let them piss right on me?

I volunteer a huge amount of my time to try and help everybody, but if the TO's won't help themselves--I cannot make them.

I guess I could just donate money to their obviously impoverished operations (which is why they've all been in business for a decade) and pray they figure out ANY of the following (you tell me which is the worst):

Bad customer service = bad place to game.

Felt is not terrain.

Letting store employees win prizes while working at the store could also be bad.

Having terrain made from coffee cans and necromunda bits (helloooo '91 nice to see you again...oh wait, it's not) isn't really condusive to playing the game.

Giving prizes to store employees on the clock is possibly a 'bad' thing.

Letting cheaters win prizes, period--let alone not kicking them out.

Giving max points to late people so they win the tournament.

Randomly assigning players to opponents, by such fun contrivances as 'everyone move to the next table, and play that guy'.

"I'm not working, so let me play my game." AKA Bad Customer Service.

Should I go on?

I'm not putting up with shitty service--we are these stores bread and butter, and they can't even be bothered to put together a decent tournament the ONE time a year it fucking rolls around?

Fuck that man.

I'd like to note I only agreed to run FOW and Fantasy for Courtney, Walker, Nate, Eric, and Brandon. Their attendance at those events was nonexistent, so I won't be running them again next year.

As far as driving people away--since I don't publish players lists nor criticize what they did in my tournaments, I don't know why people would get the impression I'm going to take their list and put it up on the fucking internet along with a picture of them, their army, and their mom for posterity in my 'this guys a noob' column. That isn't what I do, and if you think I am stopping people from coming into the store I can stop coming in on the weekends and you can have a lovefest with all the people who are avoiding me.

My First Contest...

2009-07-12T21:56:00.001-06:00

Update: Entries are no longer accepted. Thanks for all the submissions. :)

Click the link to see it...

Small update:

If your email address starts with the following, would you kindly resubmit your entry?

The google form + docs failed, and your submissions are condensed into an unreadable mishmash.

pbfanattic
dmcgr19800
tjbalt
realgenius
Drkmorals
jvtaylor3
tstussi06

Thanks a bunch!

Post will be Stickied until July 12th.

Dragon's Keep

2009-07-12T16:08:00.000-06:00

Anonymous said...

"It's a place for local players to get their local store owners to help them cheat their way to 'victory'."

This is a horrible thing to imply that anyone did, much less someone you have never met. I would like to know how you can imply that any local player at DK got the local store owner to cheat for them.

From my understanding, this is how the tournament was run:

1st round - All random matchups. I was upstairs watching the guy use his Ipod "shaking" dice roller to determine the matchups. Played someone not from the keep.

2nd round - Top points played against top points. All the people on the top tables had massacres the game previous. In fact, I played someone I regularly play at the Keep who had a massacre the previous round. Prevented him from getting into the top 3 by getting a massacre against him.

3rd round - #1 played #2, #3 played #4, etc. Played someone not from the Keep.

If the players from your group included a Tau player, an Eldar player and one more, then I met them. Tried to talk to them after the second round only to get the cold shoulder and watch them refuse to talk to me. I tried to be friendly, but I got the distinct impression that they thought they were better than me.

Tbh, I check this blog ALL the time. I enjoy your articles and strats. I really didn't expect this kind of ignorance from you.

-Steven (Tau player at DK)

Reply:

That was a generic comment, not directed at you--it was directed at Endzone, where it does happen. Plus countless other shops. Why don't you call trade sales and ask what is the final determination for winners at local shops? Right, it's the owner of said shop. Bitch all you want, but that's trade sales official policy. It's lame. Just like the Ard Boyz aren't 'Hard' at all.

1st Round: Lovely. This the same crowd who handled the tournament so well that half the guys who came down to test the waters decided to stay away from fuckup central? Why yes, it is. In case you missed it and want to vent your righteous indignation, please read this and explain how DK is awesome, but do it slowly. I didn't get it the first time around.

2nd Round: Lovely. Maybe you should not have someone who has NEVER played 40k, not run the ard boyz. Just a thought, k? Read the Ard Boyz rules. See that bit about not playing people you play locally? So if MG had 2 massacres, and DK had 2 massacres--why did they play each other? Right, a shitty ref. Most good TO's make announcements like 'is anyone playing each other that came together' and change things up.

3rd round: Neat. I'm assuming several of the following changed their attitudes:

1) Starting at 3pm. Taking 3 hours (plus) to finish each game.

2) Having a guy not know how to play the game, running the tournament.

3) Out of all the massacres in round 1, it's amazing two of three MG players were matched up.

Not sure what kind of ignorance I'm putting out, if you'd kindly explain how me ranting at two stores at once confused you makes me ignorant?

Mech Orks redux

2009-07-12T15:54:00.000-06:00

"Anonymous said...

"Tools. "Mech Orks" winning any tournament is a fucking joke."

Battlewagon orks win a hell of a lot of tournaments in the uk, and have done since the 08 ukgt.

Hopefully this will change as people mech up and take more melta"

Reply:

I've only been talking about how to run proper mech lists for well over a year. If you can't afford 3 fucking rhinos to mech your army up in that time frame, you deserve the disdain I am giving out in droves today.

Gatti

2009-07-12T12:33:00.000-06:00

Man, Gatti got himself dead. =|

Sigh. He was the closest thing to a real life Rocky.

Damn.