<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:georss='http://www.georss.org/georss'><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892</id><updated>2009-11-28T21:53:58.736-08:00</updated><title type='text'>WHAT IS TRUTH</title><subtitle type='html'>OPINION BASED UPON THE BIBLE</subtitle><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/'/><link rel='hub' href='http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/'/><link rel='next' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default?start-index=26&amp;max-results=25'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>389</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>25</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-315327254512295760</id><published>2009-11-24T13:15:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-11-24T14:03:21.500-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Epistemology and the History of the Church</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SwxVyws4PyI/AAAAAAAAAl8/FGgRPOradIo/s1600/Albigense.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 272px; height: 210px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SwxVyws4PyI/AAAAAAAAAl8/FGgRPOradIo/s200/Albigense.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5407791583120080674" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Epistemology is the branch of science concerned with "how we know what we know?"  What can we trust as an accurate source of knowledge?   Scripture is the final arbiter of all truth claims.  The first verse that comes to mind is James 1:17:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You might wonder how James 1:17 has anything to do with epistemology.   From God comes what is pure and unaffected.  Every other "source" has some affect of sin on it and at least the affect of something on it.  You can't fully trust any other source but God, so whatever He says about anything you can trust as being the truth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I've taught history now for 21 years.  I teach history a majority of days of every year.  I've also done a lot of historical reading.   History is what actually happened.   I want to repeat that so that you don't miss it.  History is what actually happened.  In the past, of course.  What is written down in what are called "history books" is not always what happened.  I've noticed certain trends in what men write that they call history.  Men often write a history that backs their desired views of the world.  The men who write the accounts of what happened are often the most powerful men at the time or those who have won the battle or the war.  Often the men writing the history have an axe to grind.  They many times want to make their favorite guys look better than what they were.  We see the same kind of varied outlooks in those writing contemporary history.  We're not far removed from Abraham Lincoln, but there are wildly different opinions about who the man was.  You'll read Christians who treat him as if he were an evangelical and other types of men who revile him.  We have a hard enough time getting an accurate assessment of someone still breathing, let alone someone who has been dead for a century or more.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The so-called "history of the church" was written almost completely by Roman Catholicism.   How can we know that what Roman Catholic "historians" wrote was true?   I go to the Bible and I find that Roman Catholicism corrupted it.  They diced up Scripture and spit it back out in an unrecognizable form.  I have a hard time trusting their representatives to give me an accurate account of what happened regarding the church or even Christian doctrine.  I don't believe that I "know" the history of the church when I "know" what Roman Catholic historians have written.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For some, whatever was published and accepted by the authority represents the academic and scholarly position.  To them, if you read what the Catholics wrote on history and doctrine, you know what Christians believed.  I don't believe that.  About this time, you might be beginning to see me as a bit of a conspiracy theorist.  In my opinion, I'm not a theorist on this.  I believe it is a fact that Satan would want men to have the wrong view of the church and doctrine, so he would like them to believe the state religion and its historians.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have a fideistic or presuppositional epistemology (I see them as the same).  I believe Scripture.  God's Word speaks of the church.  It talks about the perpetuity of the church.  It explains the nature of the church.   The church is an assembly and it has no possibility of total apostasy.   We should assume that there have always been New Testament churches since the time of Christ.    I don't have to have a written history to believe this.  I accept it without the addition of any historic "evidence."  I'm a historian who is skeptical of history.  I believe that God has made me a skeptic like He does all believers.  He says to them to "prove all things."  I have to have real evidence, that is, the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The church should look like, well, the church.  Roman Catholicism doesn't walk or talk or quack like a church.   I don't see a state church in Scripture.  I don't see works salvation there either.  I don't see the church persecuting believers anywhere in the Bible.  And then I don't see all the other fallacies propagated through the centuries by Roman Catholicism either.  What is the Roman Catholic denomination today looks nothing like what I read in the truth, that is, God's Word.  It is no wonder that we can read in "history" that Roman Catholicism at the Council of Toulouse (1229) told everyone they could not read the vernacular translations of the Bible.  They didn't want anyone checking up on them to see the error.  If they did that, some kind of reformation might take place.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Because I know what the Bible says about perpetuity of the church, I look for the record of true churches in history, those that would be independent of the corrupt state organization, Roman Catholicism.  I see churches like these in history in every century.  I don't know everything there is about them, because these were churches often persecuted by the government and the state religion.  They didn't have the convenience of stopping to write their histories.  I understand that.  What you'll find is that these independent, New Testament churches were Baptist.  When they came out the other side after the invention of the printing press, we see that they were Baptist churches.  They were called by different names during those preceding centuries, but in the end, they were Baptist.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I feel a little sick to my stomach when I hear men say that Baptists came out of the Reformation, that is, the English separatists theory.  They trace their lineage to Luther and Calvin and then to Augustine.  They often have many of the same doctrines as well.  And they have a more common view of the church as Roman Catholicism than those who believe either a spiritual kinship or chain-link view of church history.  They often take an Augustinian view of the church and they are not so hard against infant sprinkling.   They many times also believe that the truth was preserved by means of Roman Catholicism.   They are often more excited about being fundamentalists than they are about being Baptist.   They also might not mind getting together for the gospel and tolerate corrupt teaching and practice to do so.  I don't accept this view of history because it clashes with the truth, the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I'm a Baptist because Baptists are the true churches.  They are the churches which remained independent of Roman Catholicism.  I'm not Protestant.  I was never in Roman Catholicism in order to come out.  My legacy stands in the persecuted churches, those who would not bow the knee to Rome.  This truth also separates me from most of evangelicalism and fundamentalism.  Fundamentalism has been a movement of interdenominational Protestants.  Why be a fundamentalist when one is already a Baptist?  Baptist is good enough for me.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-315327254512295760?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/315327254512295760/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=315327254512295760&amp;isPopup=true' title='12 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/315327254512295760'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/315327254512295760'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/11/epistemology-and-history-of-church.html' title='Epistemology and the History of the Church'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SwxVyws4PyI/AAAAAAAAAl8/FGgRPOradIo/s72-c/Albigense.jpg' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>12</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-8107773042148896540</id><published>2009-11-18T13:20:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-11-19T10:49:51.014-08:00</updated><title type='text'>WORD OF TRUTH CONFERENCE AUDIO</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.wired.com/images/productreviews/2008/09/audio_technica_ath_anc7_f.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 134px; height: 199px;" src="http://www.wired.com/images/productreviews/2008/09/audio_technica_ath_anc7_f.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;Our friend Jack Lamb is uploading&lt;a href="http://wordoftruth.churchwebwerx.com/sermons/"&gt; the audio from the WORD OF TRUTH CONFERENCE&lt;/a&gt; (Nov 11-15, 2009) on to the conference website.  This might take a little while, but the first teaching session is up.  It is actually the third session of the four teaching sessions, the one on Romans 16:17-18 with Pastor David Sutton from our church.  By tomorrow morning we will have the evening panel discussion uploaded for you to listen to.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-8107773042148896540?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/8107773042148896540/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=8107773042148896540&amp;isPopup=true' title='6 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8107773042148896540'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8107773042148896540'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/11/word-of-truth-conference-audio.html' title='WORD OF TRUTH CONFERENCE AUDIO'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>6</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-5273016772177843416</id><published>2009-11-17T17:20:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-11-17T17:21:29.978-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Women Dressing Like Men?</title><content type='html'>Even &lt;a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/fashionnews/6583074/Women-banned-from-wearing-trousers-in-Paris.html"&gt;the world&lt;/a&gt; understands that trousers are male dress.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-5273016772177843416?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/5273016772177843416/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=5273016772177843416&amp;isPopup=true' title='64 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5273016772177843416'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5273016772177843416'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/11/women-dressing-like-men.html' title='Women Dressing Like Men?'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>64</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-4117666322676723410</id><published>2009-11-13T08:12:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-11-13T08:13:30.578-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Spirit Band at West Point</title><content type='html'>&lt;object width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jZ5ldla_wGM&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1&amp;amp;"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jZ5ldla_wGM&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1&amp;amp;" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 153);font-size:130%;" &gt;Notice the trombone right in the middle (with the music).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-4117666322676723410?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/4117666322676723410/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=4117666322676723410&amp;isPopup=true' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/4117666322676723410'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/4117666322676723410'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/11/spirit-band-at-west-point.html' title='Spirit Band at West Point'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-281317745227989112</id><published>2009-11-10T11:08:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-11-10T21:28:22.207-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Some Common Sense about the Fort Hood Murders</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://media.syracuse.com/news/photo/fort-hood-shooting-txps103jpg-a2df6f2866fb4783_large.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 206px; height: 137px;" src="http://media.syracuse.com/news/photo/fort-hood-shooting-txps103jpg-a2df6f2866fb4783_large.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;I just returned from the East Coast and we're starting the Word of Truth Conference this Wednesday evening, but I wanted to comment on the Fort Hood murders now that I'm back.  I really have two major points that I want to make right now and I might make more later, but I want to penetrate through the clutter to get to what this is all about.  My wife and I sat awhile in Atlanta, waiting for our plane to San Francisco.  We had already flown from Portland, ME to Baltimore and then from Baltimore to Atlanta.   We sat down and I plugged in my computer to recharge it before the long trip to the West Coast.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I had work to do, but I watched Lou Dobbs of CNN, which was on the flat-screen hanging from the ceiling.  He had several experts of different kinds for the purpose of commenting upon the shootings and deaths at Fort Hood.  I have never heard so little said with so many words.  No one could say anything.  Lou Dobbs didn't say anything.  He hinted all around the edges of the truth with what seemed to  be attempts at getting his guests to do the heavy lifting.  They would not budge.  Nobody was saying anything.  Words, words, and more words, but nothing said.  I looked around me at that gate, C-1, in the Atlanta airport, and we were rather diverse in ethnicity.  In the row right in front of me and just to the left were two Arabic looking people with Islamic dress.  They seemed to be giving the program their rapt attention.  I would throw out questions to my wife after statements were made by folks on Dobb's panel.  My voice carries, and nobody dared to look at me, it seemed.   My sentences were communicating the obvious. The main theme of my retorts was the lack of truthfulness of the commentators.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I'm going to give you my two major observations, but I do have many more minor ones.   One of the minor ones is that we seem to be heading toward every murder having insanity as its cause---with the rare exception of the hate crime.  If a homosexual gets killed, we'll know that someone in his right mind performed the murder and he will be penalized greater than the fullest extent of the law.   His motive was hate.   It had to be.   We can judge that a homosexual can't help but be one, and we can judge that someone that kills a homosexual could help from killing him.  To some degree I could explain every murder as insanity, so every murderer could just plead insanity.  Somehow in this case an insane person was able to effectively pose as a psychiatrist attempting to help soldiers with supposed psychiatric problems.  He was clever enough to do that, and he showed many other signs that he thought through this for awhile in great premeditation, but we'll have to settle that he was insane.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The military psychiatrist murderer segues to another minor point---the fraudulence of psychiatry.   If this guy fooled his fellow psychiatrists and if this man did not set off any buzzers with these very educated people, then this whole field should be shelved for the rest of time.  They are quacks and fakes.  Unfortunately, today pastors who go to the Bible to deal with people's souls are considered to be trivial, but these men can rise to the level of a Major in the Army, very high ranking, with such a bogus field of knowledge.  I use the word "knowledge" loosely, sort of like I would call the city dump "art."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Alright now to my actual two major points, both to explain why this happened at Fort Hood.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;1.  Political Correctness Murdered the Men at Fort Hood&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Everyone was afraid to point out that this man was a terrorist.  Our president said, don't rush to judgment.  Nobody until the after murder interviews would do or say anything seriously about a guy that was a murderous, religious fanatic, that was part of a religion that plainly teaches&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; jihad&lt;/span&gt; as one of its major tenets.  How many brains does it take?  Almost everyone knows this.   Islam did not spread by love and peace.  It doesn't help its adherents.  Look at the Islamic countries.  I have to be honest.  I respect some aspects of Islam.  The term Islam means "surrender."  I like the concept of surrender.  I like people dedicated to their religion.  This murderer was a dedicated follower of Islam.  He was taking Mohammed at his example and his word.  He was real.   He really believes in the authority of the Koran and the teachings of his Imam.  He followed through with his convictions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Instead, we've got guys at Harvard and other Ivy League schools who will write&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; ad infinitum&lt;/span&gt;, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ad nauseum&lt;/span&gt;, about fundamentalist Christianity, how that it is dangerous in the same fashion as Islam.  They've got just that kind of discernment in the most prestigious educational institutions in this country.  These are the type of men that are the big culprits in this.  They are also the kind of guys that are getting interviews in papers like the New York Times and MSNBC and other news and opinion outlets.  They are attempting to spin this to a people that hopefully have at least a little more common sense than that.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;People today are so afraid to be judged for being a racist or a bigot that they will not step up when they see something.   The regular American is rendered powerless under the tyranny of political correctness.   And television, people's main source of information, is a non-stop pipeline of political correctness.  The only ones not tolerated are those with a point of view on the culture, that are dogmatic in judging what is true and good and beautiful, as if we do have a source of absolute truth.   Our country is even making it illegal to judge.   Our soldiers were conditioned to respond the way they did, to put away a protective kind of skepticism that they should have been confident in having toward a person who is Islamic.   People should be wary of those who believe in Islam.   They should feel comfortable watching them out of the corner of their eye.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let's be straight about this.  Just because you don't trust Islam and you are cynical about Islamic people does not mean that you are a bigot.   You are using your head.  You are judging correctly.  It is the kind of judgment that keeps you alive.  This is not a symptom that you want to kill Islamics.  Have you noticed that you don't see that in this country?  We don't go after people like that.  But at the same time, we should have the right not to be stupid.  The mainstream media and the leadership in government is expecting us to be stupid.  Part of my right to pursue happiness is my right not to be stupid.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Islam wants a Moslem country.  Their teachers want this to be an Islamic country.  I want this to be a Christian country.  So I understand their thinking.  However, I do it by spreading a message.  The historic way of Islam has been to spread their religion with the use of the sword.  We're stupid not to take this into consideration.  Have you noticed that Christianity doesn't have the same tendencies?  Could you conceive of Christian or Jewish suicide bombers?  I want Muslims to be converted to Christianity, but I don't want Islam to be welcome in this country.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Did you read the last statement of the previous paragraph?  The true&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; intoleristas &lt;/span&gt;of this country would call that bigotry.  I call it good discernment.  I don't want the United States to be like the Arab, Islamic countries.  I don't want my leadership to coddle them and respect them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Too many people are too afraid to speak the truth.  Men would not speak up about the murderer at Fort Hood.  We have created that environment in this country.  In many ways, by being silent we are playing right into their hands.  As a result, he had access to our soldiers, to murder them at their own base in their own country.  We are paying for political correctness.  When will we make it stop?  When will we stop being stupid?  There ought to be outrage and there ought to be outrage now!  I'm hearing none.  Is this really true?  Are we really going to be OK with this and let Islam go scot free again?  They bombed our World Trade Centers.  They IED our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.   They are planning more violence against innocent civilians all over the world.   Let us please stop the stupidity!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;2.  Those Who Disarmed Our Soldiers on their Base Are the Culprits in these Murders&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How many murders would have occurred, do you think, if everyone was packing?  Do you think that this murderous Islamic terrorist would have killed 13 and wounded over thirty-five others if everyone had a side arm?  Why is it that our soldiers cannot have fire arms on the base?  Why did they not have them?  This emboldened this terrorist.  He knew he was going to get away with it because we have stupid, yes stupid again, gun laws that prohibit the carrying of fire arms.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We have an administration that is hostile to the carrying of fire arms.  Our government is working at taking away guns.  Do you understand that our freedom is tied into the bearing of arms and that this incident is the perfect example of that?  Think of these families who are now suffering the death of their loved ones.  It wouldn't have happened with most of them if they were carrying guns.  It may not have happened at all.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some talk all about the crimes committed by gun.  The crimes are committed by criminals.  Those criminals would be afraid if they knew that everyone else was carrying.  Would I be more afraid?  I recently had a friend who was threatened with violence by someone because he reported him to the police.  We asked him if he was afraid at a confrontation that they had.  He said, "No."  Why?  Because he was carrying a concealed weapon.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Normal, law-abiding citizens are afraid of guns today because of the propaganda they have been fed by the media and the educational institutions.  The second amendment protects the citizens of the United States from a tyrannical government.  We should be thankful for this right in the Bill of Rights of our Constitution.  Most citizens don't carry guns because they are scared of them and frightened from possessing them, fearful of their own government and what the state might do to them because they want to carry a gun.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Even writing this particular blog has me thinking that I might be marked in some way by this government.  They may red flag me and cause me some problems.  We are to the point where we are not sure at least.  I'm still thankful for living in the home of the free, but I understand that political enemies are looking to target people who write against their cause.  They have such control over people with their propaganda that most wouldn't even care if an individual citizen suffered at their hands because of his position.  In other words, they think they can get away with it.  I think our government should be respecting its citizens.   We need to let them know that they don't have to have those positions.  We can put them out with  our vote.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So two points.  Political correctness.  The right to bear arms.   The story of Fort Hood.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-281317745227989112?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/281317745227989112/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=281317745227989112&amp;isPopup=true' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/281317745227989112'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/281317745227989112'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-common-sense-about-fort-hood.html' title='Some Common Sense about the Fort Hood Murders'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-849072648814415079</id><published>2009-11-06T14:50:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-11-06T15:16:28.280-08:00</updated><title type='text'>West Point Visit 2</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://atos.org/conventions/2007/venues/west_point_cadet-chapel_interior1-l.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 217px; height: 162px;" src="http://atos.org/conventions/2007/venues/west_point_cadet-chapel_interior1-l.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;On Wednesday morning we went out to the plain as close as we could get to morning formation. Only the plebes formed there in front of the barracks. They wore sand and green camo with matching cap, light brown boots, and then a dark, warm jacket. A base and snare drum duet kept the beat as they marched orderly into the mess all. We were the only ones out standing at 4am California time. Later our cadet said that he said he saw us.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Before the lunch formation, we stopped by the Protestant chapel, called &lt;a href="http://www.westpoint.edu/Chaplain/cadetchapel.htm"&gt;the Cadet Chapel&lt;/a&gt;, dedicated in 1910 and perched above the rest of West Point like a guardian angel. You get a brilliant view of the post, the fall foliage, and the bending Hudson River in the distance. We walked through the heavy double doors at the front entrance into the lobby. We plunked four quarters into a slot and took a calligraphy Cadet Prayer. &lt;a href="http://www.usma.edu/chaplain/cadetprayer.htm"&gt;Read it&lt;/a&gt;.  You'll be amazed by some of the truths therein.  I had become familiar with the prayer when reading &lt;a href="http://allentech.net/techstore/item_0765306573.html"&gt;the story&lt;/a&gt; of a former West Point superintendent, who landed at both Sicily and Normandy.   He said that prayer got him through the war.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We walked into the chapel and it was quite a construction. I had seen nothing like it. I'm not for building these for church, but it was impressive that this structure sat where it did and that it was dedicated to God. I was happy. The one other person in the massive room sat at the other side of the two hundred foot aisle. Here's what Wikipedia says about the organ he was playing:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;The Cadet Chapel organ, United States Military Academy, West Point, New York, is the largest all pipe organ, in a religious structure, in the world. It is some 380 ranks, 874 stops, 293 voices, 23 divisions, playable across 4 manuals and pedal, with some 23,500 pipes. It is estimated to weigh over 124 tons. It is continually being enlarged. This organ is played for over 300 services each year. In the history of the Cadet Chapel there have only been four organists. There are public tours of the post and services are open to the public. The Association of Graduates sponsors a concert series free and open to the public.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The organist wasn't playing loud, but we watched and listened for awhile, peering around at the amazing stained glass windows, the story they told and how they related the Bible to the American soldier in pictures.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We walked out and drove down to the plain again to watch lunch formation.  As they milled around forming their lines, the bells were playing hymns.  Yes, hymns.  The first was &lt;a href="http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh369.sht"&gt;"Blessed Assurance,"&lt;/a&gt; every verse chiming out over the entire, gigantic base.  I wondered if these soldiers were thinking about what they were listening to.  As we still waited, sitting on a bench next to the statue of Dwight Eisenhower, the next hymn came, and we gladly sat and hummed along with &lt;a href="http://wilstar.com/midi/allthroughthenight.htm"&gt;"All through the Night."&lt;/a&gt;  Right before the drums began again, beating out their march into lunch mess, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;The Doxology&lt;/span&gt; peeled over all of West Point.  Did you know that &lt;a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka_Y4Hgefuo"&gt;"Jesus Loves Me"&lt;/a&gt; was written for West Point cadets?  Later we asked Kirk if heard these hymns.  He said, "Yes," every day.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The plain where the parades occur is surrounded by statues of West Point legends, giving its name, Trophy Point.  Next to the new library is a statue of Patton.  George Washington, who first conceived of a national military academy, sits on a majestic horse right before the L-shaped barracks on the plain (see all the monuments in order in &lt;a href="http://www.usma.edu/tour/PattonMonument.asp"&gt;this slide presentation&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We saw our son later that night.  We toured the West Point museum and Visitors Center.  We sat and watched the parachute team float from a helicopter high in the sky and drop down onto targets on the plain.  Two company soccer teams played a hotly contested match.  We stopped in at the PX and commissary to get him some necessaries and then ate on post at Subway.  Dad and mom gave the final hug and watched his figure disappear in the darkness.  We headed toward Thayer Gate toward our next destination.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-849072648814415079?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/849072648814415079/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=849072648814415079&amp;isPopup=true' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/849072648814415079'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/849072648814415079'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/11/west-point-visit-2.html' title='West Point Visit 2'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-7598496046956372883</id><published>2009-11-04T03:17:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2009-11-04T03:24:45.001-08:00</updated><title type='text'>November West Point Visit</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SvFkIE2CfCI/AAAAAAAAAl0/s22eXc2THj8/s1600-h/us-military-academy-at.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 200px; height: 134px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SvFkIE2CfCI/AAAAAAAAAl0/s22eXc2THj8/s200/us-military-academy-at.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5400207518096063522" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;I'm at West Point.  Last night my wife and I saw our son for the first time since June 29th, when we dropped him off on "R" Day (reception day).  The picture to your left is the barracks from the plain.  We got up early today, 3am California time, to see the breakfast formation on the plain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We flew Southwest, Oakland to Midway--Chicago to Hartford, rented a car, got here at 9pm (were inspected three times, got out to open the trunk twice), and are staying at military lodging on post.    We'll start driving to Maine later tonight to be at the 10th anniversary for Pastor Bobby Mitchell.  Our son could visit us here on post, which made this super convenient.  We picked him up by the plain.  It was nice to see him again.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More later.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-7598496046956372883?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/7598496046956372883/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=7598496046956372883&amp;isPopup=true' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/7598496046956372883'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/7598496046956372883'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/11/november-west-point-visit.html' title='November West Point Visit'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SvFkIE2CfCI/AAAAAAAAAl0/s22eXc2THj8/s72-c/us-military-academy-at.jpg' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-6176182327984920124</id><published>2009-10-29T11:22:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-29T11:26:15.018-07:00</updated><title type='text'>West Point on CNN</title><content type='html'>CNN visited West Point.  At 20 seconds into the video, you'll see someone very familiar in the middle of the class, back row, with glasses.  They visited his math class.  He did an 18.6 mile ruck march on Saturday in a storm.  (Get a load of the Navy professor at 2:20 and what he says about diversity.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" id="ep" height="374" width="416"&gt;&lt;param name="allowfullscreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"&gt;&lt;param name="wmode" value="transparent"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/apps/cvp/3.0/swf/cnn_416x234_embed.swf?context=embed&amp;amp;videoId=us/2009/10/23/starr.military.diversity.cnn"&gt;&lt;param name="bgcolor" value="#000000"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/apps/cvp/3.0/swf/cnn_416x234_embed.swf?context=embed&amp;amp;videoId=us/2009/10/23/starr.military.diversity.cnn" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" bgcolor="#000000" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" height="374" width="416"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-6176182327984920124?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/6176182327984920124/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=6176182327984920124&amp;isPopup=true' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/6176182327984920124'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/6176182327984920124'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/west-point-on-cnn.html' title='West Point on CNN'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1444924218450407184</id><published>2009-10-28T09:04:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-30T11:42:04.547-07:00</updated><title type='text'>When A Classification Slanders</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.centralseminary.edu/images/straub.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 150px; height: 205px;" src="http://www.centralseminary.edu/images/straub.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;In the summer of 2009 at a Bible faculty summit for fundamentalist Bible college and seminary faculties, Jeff Straub read a paper entitled "The Fundamentalist Challenge for the 21st Century: Do We Have a Future?" in which he attempted to classify segments or branches of fundamentalism by assigning characteristics with certain titles for each branch (you can read it &lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/article/fundamentalist-challenge-for-21st-century-do-we-have-future-part-1"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and&lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/article/fundamentalist-challenge-for-21st-century-do-we-have-future-part-2"&gt; here&lt;/a&gt;).  With his essay came&lt;a href="http://sharperiron.org/sites/default/files/reference/fund_taxonomy_chart.pdf"&gt; a chart&lt;/a&gt; he titled, "The Broad Theological Landscape of the 21st Century --- A Working Taxonomy," with contributions from Kevin Bauder, Dan Brown, and Jon Pratt.  His three classifications for fundamentalists were Hyper Fundamentalism, New Image Fundamentalism, and Historic Fundamentalism.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What is the purpose of these three classifications for fundamentalists?  What I can surmise is that he wants everyone to know that he and his friends represent historic fundamentalism.  The paper really is not to establish who is obedient to God and the Bible, but who are the real fundamentalists.   Why is this important?   Um.  I don't know.  I don't think God cares at all, but this is a big deal to fundamentalists, it seems, because they are regularly speaking in these taxonomies and classifications.   It reminds me of what I do every year when I'm doing my taxes and I'm working at aligning myself with the sweetest spot tax-wise for my family and me.  These fundamentalists place themselves in the sweet spot and the others outside of it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another reason someone like Straub, who has put himself in the Historic Fundamentalist category, would be interested in drawing up these classifications would be to combat some of the work that has been done by the New Image Fundamentalists (which would include several that many are calling "the young fundamentalists) to include the Evangelical Right in the column of Historic Fundamentalism.  The New Image guys see an "emerging middle," as noted by Straub in his chart, that would include conservative evangelicals as fundamentalists.   Not only would this allow the young fundamentalists to be a part of the big and famous boys of conservative evangelicalism (Piper, MacArthur, Carson, Dever, Mohler), but it would give them cover for making this move, some sort of fundamentalist legitimacy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course, from my perspective, I wonder why it matters to be a fundamentalist.  I've been asking this for a long time.  Why isn't it good enough to be a church?  Why isn't Baptist good enough?  What about a saint?  I don't consider myself a fundamentalist, so I'm attempting to help out men like Straub, which would allow them to have that term all to themselves.  However, in Straub's classification system, I likely can't avoid still being a fundamentlist, because I would have to be a Hyper Fundamentalist.  This is not a good thing to be on his chart.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So I look at the chart to see who I would be.  It is, after all, a Hyper Fundamentalist, that is, what Clarence Sexton, David Cloud, and D. A. Waite are, according to the Straub lay-out.  I'm pretty familiar with D. A. Waite and David Cloud and Clarence Sexton.  Shouldn't Jack Schaap be in there too?  And Paul Chappell?  And Pensacola Christian College?  Maybe it would have looked too bad for Cloud and Waite to have lumped those men in there too.  So we get the strange bed fellows of Cloud, Waite, and Sexton.  I think we all know what has those men in common---the King James Version.   Why not just have that column have one thing under it---KJVO---and he would have been done?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But according to the chart, that's not all that they have in common.  And just as a reminder, I'm sure that Straub would be put me in the Hyper Fundamentalist category too.  He says that they are strongly anti-calvinist.  I don't know what that is, because I know that historic Baptists, according to John T. Christian's &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;History of Baptists&lt;/span&gt;, have been more Calvinist than Arminian.  That doesn't sound too strongly anti-Calvinist.  And doesn't Clarence Sexton have Ian Paisley there on campus to speak?  Doesn't he associate himself with all things Spurgeon in almost everything that he publishes?  Does D. A. Waite push anti-Calvinism?  Those are the names that he used.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But the anti-Calvinism is a relatively minor one.  Next the Hyper Fundamentalists elevate orthopraxy over orthodoxy.  Wow!  Maybe Sexton, but not Cloud, and especially not Waite.  And as for me, well, I would guess that Central and Straub are more revivalistic than I am, placing more emphasis on pragmatics than I would.   Then the chart says that Hyper Fundamentalists over emphasize a separation which is unrelated to church discipline.  I know quite a few that he would place in this category would not practice church discipline.  Cloud and Waite, two of the three names he mentions, believe in it and practice it.  The churches I'm in fellowship with practice it.  And we all see our separation relating to church discipline.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Next on the chart for the Hypers is that they separate from other fundamentalists.   True.  But it's not like these separatists choose out fundamentalists as some special group.   I would think that Cloud and Waite, and I know it is true for me, would separate based on what Scripture said irregardless of whether the person or church thought himself to be a fundamentalist.  My experience has been that historic fundamentalist churches will welcome people that we have disciplined from our church based on the passages on church discipline, and they don't give me so much as a phone call.  I've also noticed that it comes back to haunt them, but they still have done it nonetheless.  I would not do that to them.  When I asked one pastor why he did that, he told me it was because I was KJVO.  There we go.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Straub and company next include this as a characteristic of the Hypers, which include Cloud and Waite---they use a "mixture of old Gospel and Southern Gospel music, some CCM."  It's pretty easy to find that Cloud rejects  Southern Gospel.  He has written and spoken about it extensively---you can get the articles and the DVDs where he has.  I would think that Waite, a BJU graduate, does not use Southern Gospel either.  That leaves Sexton, which does use Southern Gospel, but the other two are against it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then the Hyper Fundamentalists expand the central core of fundamentals beyond the "five," as well as "extraneous issues --- e. g. Bible versions" as a basis for separation.   You could just call this practicing what the New Testament teaches on separation.  This isn't a slander against these men, because it might be the one that is the most accurate of all his 'scholarly' classifying.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Next is topical preaching.  Waite rarely does topical preaching.  I preach almost exclusively expository, as do pastors I am friends with.  Straub says concerning his group, the historic fundamentalists, "Some good expository preaching."  It's not only not topical, but it is good expository preaching.  I grew up in what Straub calls "historic fundamentalism" and I rarely heard an expository sermon, so it is not entirely historic.  Now it is more of an emphasis in churches everywhere.  This is not necessarily with thanks to historic fundamentalism, but let us all be glad for this development.  However, to across-the-board say that the Hypers do topical preaching isn't true.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In his group, Straub includes Tim Jordan, Matt Olson, Mark Minnick, David Doran, Kevin Bauder, John Hartog 3, and Chuck Phelps.  Those were likely the guys represented at the meeting he was making his presentation.  You weren't going to get too much of a protest from them.  Of course they don't separate too much or too little.  They separate just right.  Why?  Because they are willing to compromise more on the "non-essentials."  We're supposed to see that makes them better.  They may have allowed Uzzah to live.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But I titled this post, "When a Classification Slanders."  To include Cloud and Waite in a presentation that smears them with certain characteristics that they don't have is slander.  No explanation is given.  It is just put out there with those inaccuracies for people to assume that these qualities characterize these two men.   I've tried to give my point of view on Straub's blog at Central, but they wouldn't allow it.  He's welcome to come here and tell me how he hasn't slandered anybody.  That's called "due process," by the way.&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);font-size:85%;" &gt;(1)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What brings these two together is their support of the KJV---that's it.  So again, the KJV position really is the determining factor here, since half of the other characteristics don't even describe them.   The chart would have been a little boring and sort of thoughtless if it had one point under Hyper Fundamentalists:  KJVO.   Cloud and Waite are living men, men who are saved.  I don't think Straub is questioning that.  But they are men who should not be slandered by him.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:85%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"&gt;(1)  I received an email from a source I shall not name who informed me that everyone in the group of "Historic Fundamentalists" he lists were not there.  I want everyone to know that.  So he was not influenced by their presence.  What I was saying was that there is acceptance from the people to whom you are making this presentation.   I'm not against some judging of motives, as long as I'm careful with the wording---which I was.  I have mentioned in the comment section that he leaves out the New Image Fundamentalists, except for a Stephen Davey with a question mark, so he had the ability to leave people out.  If he was really looking for men who represented his qualities of Hyper Fundamentalists, he missed them.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-1444924218450407184?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/1444924218450407184/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=1444924218450407184&amp;isPopup=true' title='14 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/1444924218450407184'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/1444924218450407184'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/when-classification-slanders.html' title='When A Classification Slanders'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>14</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-5400622856128799424</id><published>2009-10-27T12:27:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-27T12:31:54.766-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Word of Truth Conference Site</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SudKfzv4SfI/AAAAAAAAAls/AdZZnT1EhKw/s1600-h/cropped-purity-of-the-church1.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 435px; height: 68px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SudKfzv4SfI/AAAAAAAAAls/AdZZnT1EhKw/s320/cropped-purity-of-the-church1.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5397364588754258418" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;As many of you know by now, we've got a conference here at our church November 11-15, Wed-Sun, called the Word of Truth Conference.  My friend Jack Lamb has created a website to be home base online for the conference &lt;a href="http://wordoftruth.churchwebwerx.com/"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Feel free to bookmark it along with my blog and the church blog.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-5400622856128799424?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/5400622856128799424/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=5400622856128799424&amp;isPopup=true' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5400622856128799424'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5400622856128799424'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/word-of-truth-conference-site.html' title='Word of Truth Conference Site'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SudKfzv4SfI/AAAAAAAAAls/AdZZnT1EhKw/s72-c/cropped-purity-of-the-church1.jpg' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-793284481449959967</id><published>2009-10-25T16:54:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-25T22:50:45.805-07:00</updated><title type='text'>How Much Should Church Leadership Be Involved In Governmental or Political Matters?</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.scrantontimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.245191%21image/302198597.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/302198597.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 209px; height: 337px;" src="http://www.scrantontimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.245191%21image/302198597.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/302198597.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Along with most of my friends, I believe that America has reached an all time low in the way of moral decline and spiritual discernment.  While we are going about doing ministry in and through the church, it seems that the coverage and the most tangible impact in those areas that distress us the most and stem the flood from a stinking cesspool are those who organize in patriotic meetings and political protests.  What should Christians do to help halt the advancement of this world's agenda against God?  Many believe that the best solutions rest in political activism, boycotts, and public meetings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I look on at this as an American citizen, I understand their rationale.  I sympathize with their feelings.  Evil is disfiguring our society.  All Christians should oppose the policies that drive the destructive trends.  I'm on the side of those in opposition to the government that voice out their objections to corrupt government positions.  I have strong opinions about how our government should operate, I think I'm right, and I believe I can prove it through scripture and history.  From teaching American Government, I know the constitution better than most.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The question I ask is not what position should I take or who do I support.  The question is:  "Is this how a church and church leadership should be investing its energies?"  I've taught history for 20 years.   I am able to influence students in a scriptural view of the world about 200 days a year in our school.  I want them to know how to vote and what it is that a citizen of this country should do to influence his government.  I think every American citizen should know these things.  But should a church leadership be using its time to sway American voters and organize conservatives to support conservative issues?  I'm asking just so that we would think about it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I believe that for us it is a matter of first diagnosing the problem.  I believe that the biggest problem we have is not with the world.  It is with professing Christians.  That's why I write very little about government on this blog.  I believe that the unscriptural beliefs and practices of churches are what hurts this country the most.  I do believe that 2 Chronicles 7:14 does apply here, that is, that it is God's people that need to humble themselves and pray and seek His face and turn from their wicked ways.  God didn't ask how many unrighteous there were in Sodom and Gomorrha, but how many righteous were there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The religious right in Jesus' day were the Pharisees.   They were also His biggest enemies.  Don't get me wrong.  I believe Jesus would be a conservative today.  However, I don't think He or the Apostle Paul would be having anything to do with political rallies and organizing opposition to government policy.  And yes, I've read Anita Dunn's Mao's-my-favorite-philosopher-speech.  I know who President Obama has in his administration.  No, I don't like it.   But we don't have to guess what Jesus would do.  We know what He did and that's what we're supposed to do.  He and Paul had much greater difficulties with their government than we.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are some temporal, superficial benefits to using the democratic process to oppose immoral practices.  I often point to John Leland's heroic organization of Virginia's Baptist pastors for the inclusion of freedom of religion in the bill of rights.  I would have had a lot in common with those Baptists.   This, however, cannot become the church's main strategy for influencing a nation.  And I do believe times have changed.  There were enough good churches to affect the Constitution of the United States without having to compromise what those men believed about the Bible.  I don't want anything to do with most people in the moral majority.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I'm afraid that the political issue has become a bit of a fake issue with many.  It replaces the real issue.  It's not hard to talk about what bothers you about the national debt or uncontrolled spending or government control of the healthcare industry or homosexual marriage.  What about the issue of our own lack of devotion to God?  What about our relative disinterest in spiritual things?  What about our seeming indifference about the eternal destiny of our fellow man?   You might seem like you care about morality when you're fired up about coddling terrorists, but you really are straining at a gnat in this instance.  That's when we might say that we've gone from preachin' to meddlin'.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Our best weapon is still evangelism.  Our best work is still preaching.  The Bible is a spiritual weapon, powerful to the pulling down of strongholds in people's minds.    Moral and legislative efforts that leave people in unbelief cause almost no eternal good.  I'm afraid in the process that we could cause others to look to the wisdom of men for a solution at the loss of the glory of God.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I'm certainly open to correction on this.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-793284481449959967?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/793284481449959967/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=793284481449959967&amp;isPopup=true' title='8 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/793284481449959967'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/793284481449959967'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-much-should-church-leadership-be.html' title='How Much Should Church Leadership Be Involved In Governmental or Political Matters?'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>8</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-999095065540493367</id><published>2009-10-22T11:37:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-22T11:54:52.670-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Complicating Evangelism</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://sanaei.com/photos/life_getting_complicated.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 225px; height: 220px;" src="http://sanaei.com/photos/life_getting_complicated.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;I was talking to someone recently about evangelism.  He said that he had talked to a pastor who had studied this out and found that door-to-door, the cold call, was the sixth best way of evangelism.  The pastor had gone to some sales classes and took what he learned and developed a formula of how to locate the best contacts and then how to keep them warm until they finally are saved.  The formula required a certain number of connections with the contact, including a specific number of visits.  In the end, more people would be converted if the formula was followed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As he was talking to me, my mind was wandering to scripture and the whole point of evangelism.  Let me give you my formula.  Preach it to everyone.  Get the gospel to as many people as possible.  Go to everyone to bring the gospel, so that no one is missed.  That is what I see in Scripture.  It is all I see in the Bible.  I should love the people I'm preaching to.  I should want them to be saved.  I should want to live in accordance with the God about Whom I'm preaching, so that my testimony won't hinder the meaning of the Words I'm proclaiming.  I can't talk them into it though.  I can't warm them into it.  The gospel is going to do everything for the salvation to occur.  I don't have any special love for door-to-door.  I see the example of it in scripture.  I don't believe there is any more effective way for people to be saved than just preaching it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My theology is repulsed by the conversation represented by the first paragraph.  I hear the words being said and I can't wrap my brain around them.  Why?  Salvation is a supernatural work of God.   Salvation comes from the gospel.  The gospel is a message from the Bible.   The salvation doesn't come from human effort.  It is not by the will of man.  I believe these types of formulas just confuse that issue.  They make the salvation of souls about the wisdom of men.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don't know who will want to hear the gospel and who will not.  My responsibility is to preach it.  If I preach the gospel to everyone, I have fulfilled my role in the work of salvation.  When I don't preach it, I don't complete that responsibility.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-999095065540493367?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/999095065540493367/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=999095065540493367&amp;isPopup=true' title='6 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/999095065540493367'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/999095065540493367'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/complicating-evangelism.html' title='Complicating Evangelism'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>6</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-4532814727936602366</id><published>2009-10-15T21:51:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-15T21:57:30.280-07:00</updated><title type='text'>More West Point</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/Stf9JQmlN8I/AAAAAAAAAlk/aR8N2xS-hPM/s1600-h/KirkBowlinWestPoint.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 223px; height: 320px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/Stf9JQmlN8I/AAAAAAAAAlk/aR8N2xS-hPM/s320/KirkBowlinWestPoint.JPG" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5393057414316898242" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:130%;"&gt;West Point presented the Thayer Award for 2009 to Ross Perot.  They had a very special supper Kirk attended.  Here is Kirk (at the right) and his roommate after the supper in their room.  His roommate is a professing Christian.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-4532814727936602366?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/4532814727936602366/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=4532814727936602366&amp;isPopup=true' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/4532814727936602366'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/4532814727936602366'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/more-west-point.html' title='More West Point'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/Stf9JQmlN8I/AAAAAAAAAlk/aR8N2xS-hPM/s72-c/KirkBowlinWestPoint.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-8737519184673988844</id><published>2009-10-15T12:54:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-15T21:50:23.129-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Ekklesia</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.ruggieroweb.com/RTW%20Trips/10.26.P.Ekklesia.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 275px; height: 206px;" src="http://www.ruggieroweb.com/RTW%20Trips/10.26.P.Ekklesia.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Ancient Greece rose out of the earliest cultures of Europe around the shores and islands of the Aegean Sea. Long before Homer, ancestor worship made family ties very strong and after that the families came together to form tribes and then villages. Villages joined to form the &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;polis&lt;/span&gt;, city, from which our word "politics" comes. The government of these Greek city states was called &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt;, assembly, the town meeting. The first known assembly was held as early as the reign of Draco in 621 B.C. At each meeting of the assembly certain topics were discussed and voted on. The assembly would also gather in cases of emergency and in cases of trials of law in which the assembly became a jury. Votes were taken by a tally of hands raised. After being tallied the majority decision ruled and carried.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Throughout the Greek world right down to New Testament times (see Acts 19:39),&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; was the designation of the whole body of citizens in a free city-state, "called out of" (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ek&lt;/span&gt;--out of, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;klesia&lt;/span&gt;--called) their homes by the &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;kerux&lt;/span&gt;, the herald, for the discussion and decision of public business.   Translators of the Hebrew Old Testament used &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia &lt;/span&gt;to render the Hebrew &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;qahal&lt;/span&gt;, which means "congregation."  We see Stephen in Acts 7:38 call the Old Testament congregation of Israel the "&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; in the wilderness."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Jesus thought the same about &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt;.  &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; occurs only twice in the gospels.  It is clear from the second usage in Matthew 18:15-20 that Jesus had in mind an almost identical meaning to the historic usage of the word.  He used &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; like the people hearing him in that day would have understood the word.  It was a congregation possessing powers of self-government in which questions of discipline were to be decided by the collective judgment of members.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The only other times after Matthew 18 that we see Jesus speak of the &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; are the nineteen occasions in Revelation 1-3 in which in each case is a distinctly local, functioning, and organized assembly of people.  Those attempting to discern a definition of &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; based on His usage of the word would see it as something like the governments of the ancient Greek city states.  The major differentiating factor was that these assemblies to which He referred were &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;His &lt;/span&gt;assemblies, now sacred not secular.  In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said that that He would build "my assembly" differentiating it from the then congregation of Israel and the secular Greek town meeting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If I said that Greek cities operated with the government of the city-state, no one would assume that there was only one.  They would assume that each city had its own town meeting.   When Jesus said He would build up (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;oikodomeo&lt;/span&gt;, "edify") His&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; ekklesia&lt;/span&gt;, we should not assume that He meant that there was or would be only one in number either.  His &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; would be how the Lord Jesus Christ would operate on earth until He left and after He was gone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hebrews 2:12 accounts for &lt;span&gt;the&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; of Jesus functioning while He was still on earth and not yet ascended into heaven, when it says:  "Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee."  Jesus sang in the &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt;.  He could not have done that if His &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; had not yet started.  He was not standing in the midst of every believer on earth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When the Lord Jesus incorporated the term &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt;, He took a word with distinctly local and visible connotation.   He sanctified it for His own use, but He did not give it a whole different meaning.  The word excludes anything broader than a meeting or gathering.   The concept of universal or global contradicts the meaning of the word.  If Jesus wanted His governing institution on earth to have some larger context than local, he could have used "kingdom" or "family" or "nation" or "empire" or "state."  But He didn't.  He used &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In both 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 2 Corinthians 1:1, Paul writes:  "unto the church of God which is at Corinth."  To make the&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; something more than local only deviates from the meaning of the word.  An &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; must be at some local context---city, town, village, area.   All believers did not reside in the city of Corinth.   Paul wrote to the church at Colossae and he told that church to pass that letter along to the church of the Laodiceans, seeing that those were two separate churches (Colossians 4:16).  Paul wrote to the church of the Thessalonians (1 &amp;amp; 2 Thessalonians 1:1).  He said that the bishop, the pastor, is to "take care of the church of God" (1 Timothy 3:5).  One man isn't responsible to take care of all believers on earth.   At the end of 2 Timothy, the afterwords say that Timothy, to whom 1 Timothy 3:5 was written, was "ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A church is local only because that is what &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt;, the word translated "church," means.  I'm not trotting out landmarkism or Baptist bride-ism.   Those who make &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;ekklesia&lt;/span&gt; anything other than local only are reading something into the word that isn't there.  It never has been.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-8737519184673988844?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/8737519184673988844/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=8737519184673988844&amp;isPopup=true' title='25 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8737519184673988844'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8737519184673988844'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/ekklesia_15.html' title='Ekklesia'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>25</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-5859381541777591376</id><published>2009-10-12T11:26:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-12T13:58:00.632-07:00</updated><title type='text'>King James Version:  Elizabethan English?</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/QueenElizabethCoronation.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 164px; height: 220px;" src="http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/QueenElizabethCoronation.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: normal;"&gt;I wanted to explore the idea about whether the King James Version actually was Elizabethan English.  Elizabethan, of course, refers to Queen Elizabeth, who reigned until she died in 1603.  To understand what was the language of the day, we should consider the writings of William Shakespeare, who died in 1616.  The last of Shakespeare's works to be printed were finished in 1609.  So Shakespeare wrote in "Elizabethan English."  The translators were done with the KJV in 1611.  Shakespeare's works are still being performed all over the English speaking world and hold up in attracting an audience.  People still go to watch Shakespeare.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: normal;"&gt;You can see all of Shakespeare's works online &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: normal;" href="http://shakespeare.mit.edu/"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: normal;"&gt;.    The first work that you can click on happens to be his comedy, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;All's Well That Ends Well&lt;/span&gt;.  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: normal;"&gt;That title sounds like a familiar modern colloquialism, doesn't it?  Here's the first substantial line in scene one from that Shakesperean play:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: bold;" name="speech3"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: bold;" name="5"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a name="5"&gt;You shall find of the king a husband, madam; you,&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="6"&gt;sir, a father: he that so generally is at all times&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="7"&gt;good must of necessity hold his virtue to you; whose&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="8"&gt;worthiness would stir it up where it wanted rather&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="9"&gt;than lack it where there is such abundance.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: normal;" name="9"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: normal;" name="9"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt;I don't see "thou" or "thee" in that passage.   It looks like "you," "you," and "you."   Here is the first line from Act I, Scene II, of&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt; The Comedy of Errors&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt;:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: normal;" name="1"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a name="1"&gt;Therefore give out you are of Epidamnum,&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="2"&gt;Lest that your goods too soon be confiscate.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="3"&gt;This very day a Syracusian merchant&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="4"&gt;Is apprehended for arrival here;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="5"&gt;And not being able to buy out his life&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="6"&gt;According to the statute of the town,&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="7"&gt;Dies ere the weary sun set in the west.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="8"&gt;There is your money that I had to keep.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: normal;" name="8"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt;Again, we see "you," "your," and "your."  Where is the "thou" and the "thy" and the "thee"?  I see a "give," a "buy," and a "set," instead of a "givest," "buyest," and "settest."  Well.  I move to the history category and click on&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; The Life of King Henry the Fifth&lt;/span&gt; and paste for you a lengthy line by the Canterbuy in Act I, Scene I:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: normal;" name="40"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a name="40"&gt;Hear him but reason in divinity,&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="41"&gt;And all-admiring with an inward wish&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="42"&gt;You would desire the king were made a prelate:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="43"&gt;Hear him debate of commonwealth affairs,&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="44"&gt;You would say it hath been all in all his study:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="45"&gt;List his discourse of war, and you shall hear&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a name="46"&gt;A fearful battle render'd you in music:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;a style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);" name="speech31"&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);font-family:arial;" &gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 153); font-weight: bold;font-size:100%;" &gt;&lt;a  style="font-weight: normal;font-family:arial;" name="46"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;" &gt;I read "you," "you," "you," and "you."  No thou or thee.  Now tragedy and &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;" &gt;Romeo and Juliet&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;" &gt;.  Here's some text from Act I, Scene I:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;SAMPSON&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No, sir, I do not bite my thumb at you, sir, but I bite my thumb, sir.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;GREGORY&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do you quarrel, sir?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;ABRAHAM&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Quarrel sir! no, sir.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;SAMPSON&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you do, sir, I am for you: I serve as good a man as you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;" &gt;Again, I see a "you," "you," "you," "you," and "you."  For instance, in the line by Gregory, I don't read, "Dost thou quarrel, sir?"  Not there.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;" &gt;This is enough of a sample size for me to see that Elizabethans didn't talk and then Shakespeare most often did not write like the English we read in the King James Version.  And the works that I chose were written before the King James Version was written.  They are more ancient English than the King James.You will read that what you are reading in the King James is Elizabethan English.  Someone wrote:  "The King James Version was produced in the Elizabethan period of Early Modern English, and so it uses forms of the verbs and pronouns that were characteristic of that period."  When you read Shakespeare, you are reading Elizabethan English and you do not read the same language as the King James Version.  So the above quote is not true.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;a name="46"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;" &gt;This didn't take deep research and study.  We can know this kind of information very easily.  We have no reason to be ignorant about it.  The King James translators didn't write words like "dost" and "thy" and "thou" and "taketh" because that is how people spoke at that time.  For the most part, they didn't.  So what is the King James Version style all about?  What were the King James translators trying to do?  I believe that Steven Houck gets it right and says it as well as I would want to say it when he writes &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;a style="font-weight: normal;" href="http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_9.html"&gt;these four paragraphs:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;They were so concerned about it that they even took over the very phraseology of the Hebrew and Greek. We find in our Bibles, all kinds of Hebrew expressions and concepts that are not natural to the English way of speaking. In fact, it can even be said that the English of the King James Version is not the English of the 17th century, nor of any century. It is an English that is unique, for it is Biblical English-an English formed by the Hebrew and Greek of the Bible. It is Biblical English because the translators were more interested in being faithful to the originals than in making their translation in the street language of the day, as do translators today.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That they sought an accurate translation is further indicated by the fact that they italicized every word that did not have a corresponding word in the original. How many modern Bible versions do that? Moreover, to insure the fact that the reader understands the meaning of certain original words, they added 4,223 marginal notes that gave the literal meaning of the original words, and 2,738 notes with alternate translations. The result is that in the King James Version we have an accurate translation that puts the others to shame.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;A Majestic Translation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the third place we must note the fact that the translators gave the King James Version a majestic quality that raises it high above all other translations. They recognized God to be GOD-a God of glory and majesty. Therefore, they were careful to translate His Word in such a way that it would be filled with His majesty. That is another reason why the English of the King James Version is not the English of the 17th century. The translators deliberately chose words and phases that were no longer used in general conversation even in their day in order that they might set this book apart from all others. All you have to do is compare the language of the dedication to King James in the front of your Bible with the Bible itself and you will see the difference immediately.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many tell us that the King James Version is no longer useful because its language has become obsolete, but what they do not realize is that its language is not a type of English that was ever spoken anywhere. Oh, it was such that the people could understand it, but it was, nevertheless, a particular language deliberately chosen to make the King James Version a version that reflects the reverence and respect which is due unto its Divine Author. In that respect, they succeeded too, for there is no version that even comes close to the beauty and majesty of the King James Version. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;Our culture doesn't think like this today.  I believe it is a problem when we start talking about translations that we are so obsessed with the ease for men, rather than translating the Bible in a respectful, elevating fashion out of reverence for God.  We don't have that type of formal language today.   Anyone interested in what I'm talking about should read John McWhorter's &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Doing Our Own Thing:  The Degradation of Language and Music&lt;/span&gt;.  At the end of the first chapter McWhorter writes:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;A society that cherishes the spoken over the written, whatever it gains from the warm viscerality of unadorned talk, is one that marginalizes extended, reflective argument.  Spoken language, as I will show in the first chapter, is best suited to harboring easily processible chunks of information, broad lines, and emotion.  To the extent that our public discourse leans ever more toward this pole, the implications for the prospect of an informed citizenry are dire.  The person who only processes information beyond their immediate purview in nuggets is not educated in any meaningful sense.  On the contrary, this person is indistinguishable in mental sophistication from the semiliterate Third World villager who derives all of their information about the world beyond via conversation and gossip.  And a culture that marginalizes the didactic potential of written-style language in favor of the personal electricity of spoken language is one whose media becomes ever more a circus of personalities rather than a purveyor of information and guide to analysis.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: bold;font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:arial;font-size:100%;"  &gt;As I write this, I already hear the Tyndale quote being thrown at us, that we need a Bible that even the plowboy can understand.  Plowboys didn't know Latin, the language of scholarship.  Tyndale wasn't saying that the Bible should be translated into plowboy rhetoric or tongue.  No way.  He was saying that the English needed a Bible in their own language---English.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I write this post because of major disinformation on a widespread level about the nature of the King James English.  It is not Elizabethan English.  When you hear that, understand that it isn't true.  It was written in a kind of English especially for the Bible itself that would give us the best possible representation of Holy Scripture in the English language.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-5859381541777591376?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/5859381541777591376/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=5859381541777591376&amp;isPopup=true' title='30 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5859381541777591376'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5859381541777591376'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/king-james-version-elizabethan-english.html' title='King James Version:  Elizabethan English?'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>30</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-7334008118129689954</id><published>2009-10-05T09:03:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-08T09:23:06.021-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Bibliology and Separation  part 3</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.itiswrittenoceania.tv/images/bibleInfo003.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 265px; height: 177px;" src="http://www.itiswrittenoceania.tv/images/bibleInfo003.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;We practice separation to protect the purity of doctrine and practice, since we are not our own and the One to Whom we belong, God, is holy. We are to be holy as He is holy. We do this out of love for God, His church, His doctrine, and His practice. We want to protect the doctrine of the Bible. God's Word gives us everything we need to be what God wants us to be and to do what He wants us to do. How much of the doctrine of the Bible should we defend? Is it only the doctrine of inspiration? Or even only a very narrow aspect of inspiration? Or should all the bibliology that Scripture teaches be protected by us through separation?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We've heard talk about separation over violation of a certain tenet of bibliology, namely dividing over the false doctrine of double inspiration. Is that the only bibliological doctrine worthy of separation? If so, why? Or why not? Is the Bible itself sufficiently defended by separating only over errors in the scriptural teaching of inspiration? All the teachings of the Bible are worth protecting, even if that separates us from men and churches who hold to several other similar doctrines as we.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So far we've looked at two articles of bibliology: inspiration and canonicity. You will rarely hear something preached about the latter, so I want to direct you to a recent, excellent sermon preached on this by Gary Webb (the first of which can be found &lt;a href="http://calvarychurchcarrboro.org/ChurchSite/Sermons/Entries/2009/9/27_The_Canon_of_Scripture.html"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;). We believe in dividing over wrong beliefs in these two doctrines of scripture. Now we move to another component of bibliology, the doctrine of the preservation of Scripture.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;Is the preservation of Scripture taught in the Bible? If it is taught, what kind of preservation does it teach? Many fundamentalists and conservative evangelicals claim to believe in the preservation of Scripture. W. Edward Glenny writes in &lt;i&gt;Only One Bible?&lt;/i&gt; (p. 121):&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;A proper understanding of the doctrine of preservation is a belief that God has providentially preserved His Word in and through all of the extant manuscripts, versions, and other copies of Scripture.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Why is that a proper understanding? Glenny writes the next sentence:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--&gt;  &lt;!--[endif]--&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;This conviction is based on the evidence of history.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p face="georgia"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;    &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;Then he adds:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Has God perfectly preserved His Words so that no words have been lost? The evidence from the OT text suggests that such is not the case.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p face="georgia"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;b&gt;History&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;Glenny among others contradicts a belief in the perfect preservation of Scripture, that is, that God did perfectly preserve His Words so that no words have been lost. Contrary to what Glenny writes, the historic position of believers is that God did perfectly preserve what He inspired. You see that in the Westminster Confession of Faith (1633) and the London Baptist Confession (1689):&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentic.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The &lt;i&gt;Formula Consensus Helvetica&lt;/i&gt; (1675) reads:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;God, the Supreme Judge, not only took care to have His word, which is the "power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1:16), committed to writing by Moses, the Prophets, and the Apostles, but has also watched and cherished it with paternal care ever since it was written up to the present time, so that it could not be corrupted by craft of Satan or fraud of man. Therefore the Church justly ascribes it to His singular grace and goodness that she has, and will have to the end of the world, a "sure word of prophecy" and "Holy Scriptures" (2 Tim. 3:15), from which, though heaven and earth perish, "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass"(Matt. 5:18).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What did these statements mean regarding the preservation of Scripture?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;Foremost historian Richard A. Muller in his &lt;i&gt;Post Reformation Reformed Dogmatics, vol. 2, Holy Scripture: The Cognitive Foundation of Theology&lt;/i&gt; writes (p. 81):&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;There is no elaboration or discussion distinguishing between "words" (&lt;i&gt;verba&lt;/i&gt;) and "substance" (&lt;i&gt;res&lt;/i&gt;) such as appears in the systems of the day and no discussion of the &lt;i&gt;autographa&lt;/i&gt;. The emphasis of the confession is simply upon the original language texts currently known to the church.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Later he continues (pp. 433, 435):&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By "original and authentic" text, the Protestant orthodox do not mean the autographa which no one can possess but the apographa in the original tongue which are the source of all versions. . . . Turretin and other high and late orthodox writers argued the authenticity and infallibility of Scripture must be identified in and of the apographa, not in and of lost autographa.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In line with the observations of Muller, &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Westminster&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:city&gt; expert and author of &lt;i&gt;The Theology of the Westminster Symbols&lt;/i&gt;, Professor E. D. Morris, wrote in 1893:  &lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--&gt;  &lt;!--[endif]--&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As a Professor in a Theological Seminary, it has been my duty to make a special study of the Westminster Confession of Faith, as have I done for twenty years; and I venture to affirm that no one who is qualified to give an opinion on the subject, would dare to risk his reputation on the statement that &lt;u&gt;the Westminster divines ever thought the original manuscripts of the Bible were distinct from the copies in their possession&lt;/u&gt;.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="margin-bottom: 12pt;font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="margin-bottom: 12pt;font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Scripture&lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="margin-bottom: 12pt;font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;Where did this kind of conviction of these historic Christians come from? It came from Scripture. God's Word teaches the doctrine of preservation. Rather than cut and paste what I have written before on this or to tweak it, I thought I would instead cut and paste exactly what Paul Ferguson wrote in his recent article &lt;i&gt;Preservation of the Bible: Providential or Miraculous? &lt;/i&gt;For one, I wouldn't write anything differently than what He said. &lt;a href="http://www.febc.edu.sg/BBVol15_2b.htm"&gt;Here's&lt;/a&gt; what he wrote:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(1) God revealed the Scriptures so men could know His will both in the Old and New Testaments and in the future (Deut 31:9-13, 24-29; 1 John 1:1-4, 2:1-17; 2 Tim 3:14-17; 2 Pet 1:12-15). Certainly the Bible makes clear that no Scripture was intended for only the original recipient (Rom 15:4, 16:25-26; 1 Cor 10:11). God intended for those writings to be recognised and received by the Church as a whole (e.g., &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Col&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:state&gt; 4:16; Rev 1:4). These Words were to be guarded (1 Tim 6:20-21) as a "form (pattern) of sound words" for the church (2 Tim 1:13-14) and to be used to instruct the future Church (2 Tim 2:2).&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(2) The Bible promises that God will preserve every one of His Words forever down to the very jot and tittle of the smallest letter (Pss 12:6-7, 33:11, 119:152, 160; Isa 30:8, 40:8; 1 Pet 1:23-25; Matt 5:18, 24:35). &lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(3) The Bible assures us that God’s Words are perfect and pure (Ps 12:6-7; Prov 30:5).&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(4) The Bible promises that God would make His Words generally available to every generation of believers (Deut 30:11-14; Isa 34:16, 59:21; Matt 4:4; 2 Pet 3:2; Jude 1:17). (This is general availability, not necessarily to every person on the planet.) Certainly, we are told that for around two millennia in history only one small nation had the true and pure Words of God, "He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Israel&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;. He hath not dealt so with any nation; and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD" (Ps 147:19, 20 cf. Rom 2:14).&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(5) The Bible promises there will be certainty as to the Words of God (2 Pet 1:19; Luke 1:4; Prov 1:23, 22:20-21; Dan 12:9-10; 1 John 2:20). &lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy" style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(6) The Bible promises that God would lead His saints into all truth, that the Word, all of His Words, are truth (John 16:13, 17:8, 17).&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy" style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(7) God states that the Bible will be settled to the extent that someone could not add or take away from His Words (Rev 22:18-19; Deut 12:32). Indeed, the Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:2 warned the saints of his day to be mindful of the "Words" of the Old Testament writings (v2a) and the New Testament writings (v2b), which would be absurd if some of these Words had been corrupted or lost.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy" style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(8) The Bible shows that the true &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:placetype&gt;  of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Christ&lt;/st1:placename&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; would receive these Words (Matt 28:19-20; John 17:8; Acts 8:14, 11:1, 17:11; 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Cor 15:3).&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy" style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(9) The Bible implies that believers would receive these Words from other believers (Deut 17:18; 1 Kgs 2:3; Prov 25:1; Acts 7:38; Heb 7:11; 1 Thess 1:6; Phil 4:9).&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy" style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(10) The Bible shows that Bible promises may appear to contradict science and reason. In Genesis 2 we see that a newly created world may look ancient. However, the Scriptures remind us that "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man" (Ps 118:8).&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy" style="text-align: justify;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;(11) Christ implied the preservation of His very Words as a Standard of future judgment (John 12:48). He also warned of the vanity of ignoring His actual Words (Matt 7:26). Christ emphatically declared, "the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). In Matthew 22:29 Jesus rebuked, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures." If the Scriptures were only accessible in the Originals then why would He chide them for being ignorant of Words that were not available? Believers are commanded to contend for the faith (Jude 3) and this faith is based upon the Words of God (Rom 10:17). Note that concerning the end-times, the Lord Jesus warned, "Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8 cf. Amos 8:11; Lam 2:9).&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p class="maincopy"  style="text-align: justify;font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is what Christians have believed through history and is why still believers "in the pew" think they have a perfect Bible, despite strong efforts by even some who are leading them. It is what they see taught in Scripture.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Change&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal" face="georgia"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p  class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;We recognize the historic doctrine of preservation. So what happened? What changed? Ironically something Kevin Bauder (editor of &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Only One Bible?&lt;/span&gt;) recently &lt;a href="http://sharperiron.org/article/nick-of-time"&gt;wrote at SharperIron&lt;/a&gt; explains why this doctrine changed:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal" face="georgia"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;Christians, under the influence of Common Sense, did not deny the transcendent, but they did demote it. In their metaphysical dream, they began to reverse the priority of the transcendent and the immanent. &lt;a name="10text"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;God and His Word were no longer axiomatic. These became matters to be defended, and that defense now involved the methodological priority of doubt and the appeal to neutral foundations within the immanent order. This shift in perspective led to a massive refocusing of the intellectual and spiritual center of Christian faith, with the result that the immanent order became “real” reality. &lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As Christians granted epistemological priority to the immanent order, they lost their sense of the numinous almost completely. Natural observation displaced revelation as the instrument by which they organized their knowledge of the world. Their naïve belief in the transparency of the world left Christians open to noxious influences against which they no longer sought to maintain any defense. Increasingly, divine intervention was limited to whatever gaps remained after the application of Baconian method. The doctrine of &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Providence&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:city&gt; remained formally intact, but it no longer exerted much influence over the everyday thinking of Christian people.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;a name="11text"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Unfortunately Bauder contradicts himself when it comes to this one doctrine. He is guilty of the very violation that he decries in his series of criticisms of fundamentalism. Why does he do this? It relates to something else that he wrote in the next article of the same series:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--&gt;  &lt;!--[endif]--&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" face="georgia"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;blockquote style="font-family: georgia;" face="georgia"&gt;Unlike the Catholic magisterium, evangelicals do not accept a separate, oral tradition as a source of revelation and authority.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" face="georgia"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;Instead of relying on Scripture and getting his doctrine from God, he and others have become enamored by a scientific magisterium that uses its own extra-scriptural authority to put down the teaching of Scripture. It makes sense, common sense, to those forming a new doctrine of preservation to deny the transcendence of God in His promises. Bauder and others trample all over history and Scripture in order to hold to a new position on the doctrine of the preservation of Scripture.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal" face="georgia"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--&gt;  &lt;!--[endif]--&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Paradigm&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/b&gt;Only one time in scripture does anyone amaze Jesus. Who is it? It is the Gentile centurion in Luke 7:1-10. You should read that text. Many are amazed at Jesus, but only one man does He marvel at. Why? He had so little evidence for His faith than the Jews, and yet He believed. Jesus said there was not a greater faith in &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Israel&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;. He was a man who perfectly illustrated the sermon Jesus had just preached in the previous chapter.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The centurion had a slave boy who was sick unto death and yet he had deep compassion for this mentoring soldier, so he sent men to Jesus to ask if He would spare him. Consider vv. 6-8 in that text:&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;  &lt;!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--&gt;  &lt;!--[endif]--&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" face="georgia"&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;6 Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof: 7 Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. 8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The centurion understood Jesus' authority. He calls Him "Lord" in v. 6. He knew that if Jesus wanted the boy to be healed, he would be healed in just a word. The centurion would believe it even if he were not in the presence of his slave. He knew Jesus could do it from long distance.  The centurion described Jesus' authority by comparing it to his own.  Whatever Jesus said would happen, would happen.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here's the paradigm in this. God has said He would preserve every Word and make them available to every generation of believer. His Words would be pure unto every generation. We should just believe God. He has the authority and power to get that done. We should dismiss our common sense in this instance and go with what God said.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy"  style="font-family:georgia;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:100%;"&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Separation&lt;/b&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="maincopy"&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:Georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=";font-family:Georgia;font-size:100%;"  &gt;Why would we separate over what the Bible says about its own inspiration and not separate over what it says about its own preservation? Why would we be so selective in our obedience to passages on separation? Would that be living by faith? We should separate from those who attack and attempt to change the historic doctrine of preservation.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family:Georgia;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style="font-family:Georgia;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-7334008118129689954?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/7334008118129689954/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=7334008118129689954&amp;isPopup=true' title='13 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/7334008118129689954'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/7334008118129689954'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/bibliology-and-separation-part-3.html' title='Bibliology and Separation  part 3'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>13</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-2703157046196388966</id><published>2009-10-01T20:43:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-10-07T12:41:32.511-07:00</updated><title type='text'>What's the Scoop on the New King James Version?</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://bibles.wdfiles.com/local--files/nkjv/NKJV_Bible_Title.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 219px; height: 344px;" src="http://bibles.wdfiles.com/local--files/nkjv/NKJV_Bible_Title.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;I've noticed critical/eclectic text guys wondering, if the text is really the issue, why the King James Version supporters don't support the New King James Version.   It's supposed to be one of those gotcha moments.  We're bumbling and fumbling, exposed as the English inspirationists or preservationists that we must be.  I'm sitting here at my keyboard looking at absolutely nothing to give me a basis for my answer.  So this answer is for sure what I'm thinking on this.  To start, it isn't because of the text that I don't use or support the New King James Version.  I don't like the New King James Version as a translation.   When I think about certain aspects as to why I don't like it, I feel angry.  Here's why.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;1.  The translators attack the King James Version.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How can you call the translation the New King James Version and attack the King James Version?   Call it something else.   Please.  You shouldn't be the ones doing the translation if you don't like the King James Version yourselves.  And don't tell me that, "yes, you do like it very much," when you don't like the translation you're doing as much as you like other versions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;2.  The translators attack the text behind the King James Version.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What comes out on the footnotes is that the translators didn't even like the text behind the King James Version.  Since the NKJV was done, James Price, a big man on the translation committee on the OT, has authored a huge volume attacking the King James Version.  They never loved the text anyway.  It is rank hypocrisy to translate from a text that you don't even believe in.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As opposed to stressing the importance of the text behind the KJV, the translators attack it.  They say it is inferior and they attempt to make it look inferior.  They weren't attempting to keep people connected with the KJV.  They were trying to get people disconnected from it.  That strategy could work in an incremental way.  You start with no longer using the KJV and then you are ready to move to some other version that comes from a different text.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;3.  The translators do not take the historic and biblical position on the preservation of scripture.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don't get that the preservation of scripture had anything to do with the project for the NKJ.   These were not men that were seeing the text behind the KJV as authoritative, preserved &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;apographa&lt;/span&gt; of God.  It wasn't a belief in these particular Words that motivated these men to translate from them.  They knew that others loved the Words of the King James Version.  They knew that people would find an interest in something called the New King James Version.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;4.  How can I support the NKJV when its footnotes cast doubt on its very Words?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The footnotes take away certainty concerning the text.  It's a way to get King James Version users to take a look and what they get are men telling them that they don't even have the best text of scripture.  That's not what I want people thinking or supporting.  I don't believe it is a scriptural position either.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;5.  I don't want to pad Thomas Nelson and its mainly new-evangelical and compromising translators' bank accounts.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;6.  The NKJV plays KJV supporters for fools.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We're supposed to think that we've got an easier addition of the KJV.  And who are the men giving it to us?  People who want to change the KJV.  They want more than a change in the translation.  They want a change in the text.  And yet if we don't support it, we're some sort of double inspirationists or English preservationists.  Wrong.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Next.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 153); font-weight: bold;"&gt;ADDENDUM&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div style="text-align: center; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"&gt;THE NKJV DOES NOT COME FROM THE SAME TEXT AS THE KJV&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;IF SOMEONE SAYS THAT, IT'S NOT TRUE&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is an announcement as far as my blog is concerned.  I'm now convinced that despite saying that they used the same text as was used for the KJV, they didn't.  That is a lie.  They used  a different text and this was pointed out very clearly by someone who commented on the blog (read comments below).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;He wrote:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Jude 1:19, the LV/C text omits eautou ("themselves"), as does the NKJV.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acts 19:39, the the NKJV follows the LV/C text in "peraiterw" instead of "peri eterwn", subtle but different.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acts 19:9, the NKJV follows the LV/C text in omitting "tinos"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acts 17:14, the NKJV omits "as it were" ("ws" in the Greek) and thus once again follows the LV/C text.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acts 15:23, the NKJV follows the LV/C text in omitting "tade", or "after this manner".&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Acts 10:7 the NKJV follows the LV/C text in omitting "unto Cornelius" in the first clause.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As far as I'm concerned, that lie has now been exposed.  Some may say it out of ignorance, but some are flat out lying about this.  The NKJV does not come from the same text as the KJV.  It does not represent God's preserved Words.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-2703157046196388966?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/2703157046196388966/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=2703157046196388966&amp;isPopup=true' title='51 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/2703157046196388966'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/2703157046196388966'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/10/whats-scoop-on-new-king-james-version.html' title='What&apos;s the Scoop on the New King James Version?'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>51</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-3072990982739932266</id><published>2009-09-28T11:31:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-09-29T12:29:37.632-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Allegations:  Schismatic, a Bad Name, and Arrogance</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.geocities.com/theradsca/argue.gif"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 167px; height: 150px;" src="http://www.geocities.com/theradsca/argue.gif" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Pastor Mike Harding, who commented much more nicely on the first post of the &lt;a href="http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/bibliology-and-separation.html"&gt;Bibliology and Separation&lt;/a&gt; series, wrote &lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/forum/thread-does-ones-view-of-critical-text-make-difference#comment-5162"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; at SharperIron on September 23, 2009:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I was reading Kent Brandenburg's blog about this matter. One of the comments he allowed to be posted compared myself, Doran, and Pratt as using the tactics of the "New Atheists". Another on his blog said that though they are not Ruckmanites, they preferred Ruckmanism over against the CT as the lesser of two evils. Those kind of comments give Fundamentalism a very bad name. That is the kind of Fundamentalism that Kevin Bauder has been crticial of and rightly so. By the way, the same commentor also condemned MacArthur as a heretic on the Blood. Though I disagree with JM on numerous points, it is not fair to call JM a heretic on the blood. However, so often KJVO types participate in this kind of slander. In my opinion men like that are simply schismatic and I would not have ecclesiastical fellowship with them. Their ignorance is only surpassed by their arrogance.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I'd actually like to have things be civil between Mike Harding and myself.  We see a lot of things exactly the same in doctrine and practice, but he doesn't seem to want as much peace as we can possibly have.  In this case he didn't link to the post with this statement, so no one would get to see the context of the comments to which he was referring.   Very ironic is that this paragraph that he wrote at SharperIron actually illustrates what P.S. Ferguson was talking about when he said that they use the tactics of the "New Atheists."  If you saw the "New Atheist" comment in the context, it wouldn't look so bad.  Without the context, it looks like that P. S. may have been calling these men atheists, but here's the entire quote from P. S.:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Like many of the polemicists on the New Atheist movement, Harding, Doran, Pratt, all assume that caricatures and insinuations trump arguments. It puts me in mind of Cicero's old dictum, "When you have no case, abuse the plaintiff.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;P. S. was referring to a bunch of abusive statements made by these men (Harding, Pratt, etc.) concerning King James Version advocates.  I still love them, and I was pointing out their bad behavior.  Harding chooses to pluck the two words, "New Atheism," out of the context to make it look worse than what it was.   I would wonder if Harding is ignorant of the New Atheist movement and the kind of debate these men have used in the glut of new books they've written.  P. S. was only paralleling the polemical similarities, not the doctrinal ones.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The second comment that Harding made was that someone "said that though they are not Ruckmanites, they preferred Ruckmanism over against the CT as the lesser of two evils."   Everyone should know that no one used the words that Harding said they did.   No one defended Ruckman.  No one.   At best he was referring to a comment made by Gary Webb:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I have been strongly "anti-Ruckmanism" because of the double-inspiration issue [as well as Ruckman's personal life, ungodly spirit, &amp;amp; crazy doctrines]. However, I have to admit that, concerning the Bible in English, the Ruckmanite position is FAR BETTER than the Critical Text position. The CT position not only undermines the King James but EVERY Bible, including whatever "version du jour" the CT crowd is promoting.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That doesn't sound like support for Ruckman.   Later Joshua added:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;[N]o one is supporting Ruckman here. I pointed out earlier that no one touches him or his followers with a ten foot pole. . . .  If Gary is advocating supporting Ruckman just because he's better than Ehrman Ill eat my King James Bible.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Later Webb clarified:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;If you are sounding a warning to the effect that I (and perhaps others) would consider Ruckmanism or those that hold it as potential brethren with which to have fellowship, I would find that fairly ridiculous.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It really does seem like Harding is the one that wants to stir things up with his representation of what is said.  All that was said was that Ruckman gets far more attacked than someone like Bart Ehrman by fundamentalists and yet Bart Ehrman leaves men with far more doubt in the end about the Word of God.  Perhaps Harding can't apprehend that kind of nuance.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Next Mike made this statement:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;By the way, the same commentor also condemned MacArthur as a heretic on the Blood. Though I disagree with JM on numerous points, it is not fair to call JM a heretic on the blood. However, so often KJVO types participate in this kind of slander.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you scroll down the comments on both articles I wrote on&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; Bibliology and Separation&lt;/span&gt;, not one person, not a single one, said that MacArthur was a "heretic" on the blood.  None.  No one.  Scroll down the comments yourself.  So Harding tells the whole SharpIron world that I allowed a comment that said that MacArthur was a "heretic on the blood," and yet no one made that statement.  The only person who said anything about MacArthur and heresy was Harding himself.  He wrote:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Mac was not and is not heretical on the blood period. Bob Jones Jr. was mistaken on that issue. BJU does not consider Mac heretical on the blood today.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Somehow Harding was thinking of his own comment and that BJU, his &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;alma mater&lt;/span&gt;, were the ones that said MacArthur was heretical.  P. S. Ferguson said something about MacArthur and the blood issue, but all he said was this:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Despite MacArthur’s deeply disturbing views on the blood of Christ, total lack of biblical separation by preaching with Ecumenists and Charismatics in his ministry, promotion of rank CCM music at his conventions, BJU Board Member, Mike Harding, imperiously dismisses those who oppose MacArthur for their “the total lack of appreciation or honest commendation for men such as John MacArthur by some in our circles.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;P. S. Ferguson said MacArthur's view on the blood was "deeply disturbing."  That's it.  And then Harding broad brushes "KJVO types" as saying "this type of slander."  A slander is a lie.  Mike Harding, no one called MacArthur a "heretic."  You are obviously ignorant of what I believe about heresy, because I've &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;never&lt;/span&gt; called MacArthur a heretic.  You are the only one who brought it up.  I too think that MacArthur's view on the blood is deeply disturbing and I have been very careful in explaining why over at Jackhammer (&lt;a href="http://jackhammer.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/is-john-macarthur-off-on-the-blood-if-so-how-far-off/"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://jackhammer.wordpress.com/2009/09/01/is-macarthur-off-on-the-blood-if-so-how-far-off-pt-2/"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).  I asked Harding whether he believed MacArthur's views were unscriptural.  He said nothing, but then he jumps to calling us "slanderers" based on something that wasn't even said.  Isn't that slander itself?  I'll let you judge that rather that stooping to the Harding smear of all KJVO people.  I really do want to get along with Mike Harding as much as possible, and the way to do that is to interact based on civil discourse.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course, Harding ends with a flurry of language, attacking us as schismatics and arrogant and ignorant.  I would fly to anywhere in the country and debate Harding on the issue of the text.   He should mop up an arrogant ignoramus.  I already said I would do that with James White.   I would even host him here in California for a debate if he wanted to get some sun in the winter months.  We could video record it and have it available for posterity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the meantime, I would call on Mike Harding to reconsider what he has said.  I think he has some explaining to do.  I expect a retraction over at SharperIron.  I know that's what I would do if I were him.   And if there is anything that I say that is slanderous, I will be glad to admit it.  Until then, I don't think the "they're idiots!" kind of argumentation is effective or should be given any kind of credit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(153, 0, 0);"&gt;Addendum&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I sent a copy of this via email to Mike Harding at the same time I published it so that he could clear up any misrepresentations.   He does think that he was mistreated here entirely in the comment section and mainly from P. S. Ferguson.  He's not happy with me that I allowed the comment.  He says that he wasn't going after those that take our view of the KJV, TR, and preservation, but the Ruckman/Riplinger crowd only.  And I can appreciate that, but I was making only a very narrow point, that is, that the CT/eclectic side of the issue also uses name-calling as a technique.  That was further validated in the SharperIron comment.  I'm not even saying that he or Doran are wrong for using that type of language if they believe what they believe.  I was just saying that it isn't an either/or on the style of criticism offered.  The CT/eclectic side, especially James White, constantly talk about the KJV side as being the ones guilty of not being nice.   That is not an argument either way on this issue, but it is being used that way.  I think it is debunked by what we read in the quotes coming from the CT/eclectic side.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don't believe I started this.  All I did was point some things out that someone else said.  P. S. referred to more things that people had said.  Actually there has been a lot more said by the eclectic/CT side that is untrue and not very nice.  I don't think that pointing out what we see happening is bad; I think it's good.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I reread P. S. Ferguson's comment and it was very strong.  I wouldn't have said it how he said it, especially one or two specific sentences, but the essence of it I agreed with.  I see what P. S. is writing to be very much akin to what Peter Masters wrote recently in criticism of the "conservative evangelicals."  He, like me, sees, if any criticism at all, a very soft, civil criticism of MacArthur and his kind, accompanied with hefty portions of praise, but a very strong negativity toward KJV supporters by the non-revivalist fundamentalists.   Harding may be targeting the English inspirationists and preservationists, but it reads absolutely broad brush, because delineations between the positions are not made.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Has this been personal?  Yes.  From both sides.  We've been combative.  People are going to have to sort out what they believe the truth is.   I've got more to say on this issue as I move on in the &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Bibliology and Separation&lt;/span&gt; series.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-3072990982739932266?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/3072990982739932266/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=3072990982739932266&amp;isPopup=true' title='14 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/3072990982739932266'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/3072990982739932266'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/allegations-schismatic-bad-name-and.html' title='Allegations:  Schismatic, a Bad Name, and Arrogance'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>14</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-8750703441272823321</id><published>2009-09-21T13:49:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-09-21T23:01:11.660-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Bibliology and Separation   part two</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.ancient-future.net/biblealone.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 157px; height: 158px;" src="http://www.ancient-future.net/biblealone.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;A fundamentalist recently &lt;a href="http://gloryandgrace.dbts.edu/?p=55"&gt;carved out&lt;/a&gt; some very narrow doctrinal ground over which he would separate.  He said he'd divide over the belief that God re-inspired an English translation of scripture.  He would break fellowship with those who hold to that doctrinal error.   Besides that one specific point, he didn't mention anyone else from whom he would separate.    The double inspiration doctrine adds to the Bible even though leaving its adherents with complete certainty concerning God's Word.   Others hold to aberrant bibliological doctrines that leave them reeling with uncertainty.  We don't hear a peep about separation from those deviations from the same fundamentalists.  The numerous  mentions go to the errors that result in most assurance in God's Word, as if those are the ones that create the greatest dangers.  These also happen to be the fallacies most ridiculed by scholarly evangelicals so impressive to fundamentalists.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How is it that we determine what are the bibliological doctrines that are worthy of separation?  Shouldn't all departures from scriptural doctrine merit separation?  If not, then separation becomes about just us and our personal taste or what it is that is the most theologically correct to separate over.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We started this series by talking about how it is that we come to our positions on issues.  Then we delved into inspiration and what violations of that doctrine exist as worthy of separation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Canonicity&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Do we separate over someone who believes in 65 or 67 books?  How many wrong books or missing books must there be for us to separate over that error?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We've seen a recent glut of books in the popular bookstores attacking canonicity.   A couple of these are &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament&lt;/span&gt; by Bart D. Ehrman and &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas&lt;/span&gt; by Elaine Pagels.   These are foremost textual critics of our day and they believe that we've left out some other genuine books of the Bible, perhaps because of some early Christian conspiracy.  They believe that they've followed the trail of textual evidence to the truth as textual criticism sees it, not allowing theological presuppositions to get in the way.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Where does the Bible tell us that there should be sixty-six books?  How do we know there are sixty six?  What would tell us why there are sixty-six?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Scripture doesn't tell us there are or will be sixty six books.   It doesn't tell us what their names will be.  We have sixty-six.   We know their names.  Sixty-six have been accepted by many.  Orthodox churches use sixty-six in their teaching and preaching.  Christians all over carry around and possess copies of the Bible with sixty-six books in them.  But how did we come to this group?  This is canonization.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We can see that Christians recognized and acknowledged scripture when they saw it.   We know they had some kind of basis for doing so.   Paul understood that Isaiah penned God-inspired writ as seen in Acts 28:25:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Then Paul writes this in 1 Timothy 5:18:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This text applies the word "scripture" (&lt;i&gt;graphe&lt;/i&gt;) to an Old Testament quote (Deut 25.4) and to an New Testament one (Luke 10.7), without any distinction.   Peter writes in 2 Peter 3:15-16:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This accords canonical status to a collection of Paul's letters.  Believers knew what were the Words of God and received them, even as Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians 2:13:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is what the Lord Jesus prayed in John 17:8:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Believers did not receive non-canonical books as God's Word, like Paul's third letter to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 13:1).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How did believers know which were God's Words?  We understand this from John 16:13:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Spirit will guide into all truth.  The Holy Spirit guides to His Words.  Believers receive them.   These thoughts are exactly what Christians have said they have believed in history.  This statement is made in the London Baptist Confession (1689):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church  of God to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scriptures;  and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine,  and the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the  scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full  discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, and many other  incomparable excellencies, and entire perfections thereof, are arguments  whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet  notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth,  and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit  bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What did believers makes copies of?  They made copies of the canonical books.  They copied scripture, not non-scripture.  We see this in Colossians 4:16:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For Colossians to be read somewhere else (in Laodeicea), churches needed to make a copy of the epistle to the Colossians.  Churches made these copies.  Churches knew what the truth was.  The church is the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16).  Churches confirmed what the books and the words of Scripture were, even as God's assembly (ekklesia) is "the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The scriptural and historic &lt;span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"&gt;doctrine&lt;/span&gt; of canonicity is a canonization of Words, not Books---certainly Books but only because Words were a greater to the lesser Books.  I emphasize the word "doctrine," because we are allowing our scriptural presuppositions to guide us to the truth. We believe there are sixty six books because that's what we see is the fulfillment of what God said He would do.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some would mockingly call this "fideism" because we don't have a text that says that there will be sixty-six books.  God doesn't say, "I shall give thee sixty-six books."  We trust that God would do what He said He would do.  We look to see what He did and we accept it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We should protect and propagate the doctrine of canonicity.  Like we defend the doctrine of inspiration, we do the same with canonicity.  What would an attack on canonicity look like?  Do you think we should leave canonization to unbelieving textual critics?  Would canonization be a pastor on a Sunday morning telling his people that the particular Words in the Bibles they hold before them are not the Words of God because they aren't ranked high enough by the textual critics?  Does a pastor have the authority to tell His church what the Words of God are?  I'm talking about something like these types of quotes that we see regularly from John MacArthur (and plenty of fundamentalists):&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Already he's not ashamed of the gospel of Christ.  Now what was his message?  Notice one little footnote.  It says he preached Christ.  &lt;u&gt;The best manuscripts&lt;/u&gt; have Jesus there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The promise of faith is superior to the law because of its confirmation and its Christ-centeredness.  Thirdly, its chronology.  This just takes the argument a step further.  Verse 17 is chronology.  Interesting. "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ," wow.  That's fantastic.  The two words 'in Christ' are not in &lt;u&gt;the best manuscripts&lt;/u&gt;, so we would read it this way.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;u&gt;The best manuscripts&lt;/u&gt; translate this passage "for you are," not "it is," and that way it is personalized.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Should a man criticize the text of scripture to his church like this?  Is this a pattern or a practice we see in Scripture?  Wouldn't the Words canonized by the Holy Spirit be the ones that churches have agreed are God's Words?  If someone would change those Words based on so-called "scientific" tests applied by textual critics, has he meddled with canonicity?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Preservation&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:85%;"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"&gt;More to Come.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Those making comments in the comment section on this---consider arguing from scripture, since we're dealing with doctrine here.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 0);"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-8750703441272823321?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/8750703441272823321/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=8750703441272823321&amp;isPopup=true' title='25 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8750703441272823321'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8750703441272823321'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/bibliology-and-separation-part-two.html' title='Bibliology and Separation   part two'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>25</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-5312729373949834214</id><published>2009-09-17T09:14:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-09-17T20:39:00.404-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Bibliology and Separation</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.bridalassociationofamerica.com/clipart/bibles/bible_13.gif"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 191px; height: 185px;" src="http://www.bridalassociationofamerica.com/clipart/bibles/bible_13.gif" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Two posts were written during the last week about separation over faulty bibliology.  The first to my attention was &lt;a href="http://gloryandgrace.dbts.edu/?p=55"&gt;an essay&lt;/a&gt; written by David Doran, president of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary at his blog.  The link to Doran's article was tweeted by Phil Johnson at his twitter site.  Then I read&lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/forum/thread-don-johnson-responds-to-dr-bauders-articles#comment-4535"&gt; a comment&lt;/a&gt; (&lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/filings/9-15-09/12103#comment-4822"&gt;another more recent one&lt;/a&gt;) by Mike Harding, a pastor in Michigan, that at one point related to bibliology over at SharperIron.  Then Jon Pratt, a professor at Central Seminary, &lt;a href="http://centralmn.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/bible-versions-a-fundamental/"&gt;chimed in&lt;/a&gt; at the Central Theological Blog.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A common criticism of the eclectic and critical text guys is the bad treatment of the KJV crowd.  I think they're mainly referring to the English inspirationists (Ruckman).  I've often said that the eclectic/critical crowd is nearly as bad.  Consider these statements made in their articles and consider whether they contribute edification on this issue.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Mike Harding:&lt;/span&gt;  "the unending KJV only non-sense"&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Jon Pratt:&lt;/span&gt;  "The fallacies of sound logic, revisionist historicism, and bold-faced scare tactics employed by King James Only supporters are not characteristics of scholarly fundamentalism (and no, this is not an oxymoron) and are, instead, an indelible stain on the garments of modern-day fundamentalism."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Dave Doran: &lt;/span&gt; "wide variety of theological and ministerial goofballs," "the lunacy in defense of the KJVO position."&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;KJVO people hold no corner on name-calling and insults, so let's let that one rest. Please.  You can't complain about one side doing it and then do it yourself.  If you're going to do it, then you have to leave it alone.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I can't put my finger on what fundamentalists really believe about separation.  I had one tell me that it is impossible to be consistent in matters of separation.  Doran laid out the DBTS terms of separation, however, in very clear fashion.  This is one doctrine that he will separate over.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;(1) our church and ministry will not have fellowship with any who claim for an English translation what can only be properly claimed for the autographs; and (2) we will not have fellowship with those who refuse to break fellowship from those who hold such false doctrine.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Doran lowers the gauntlet on this issue.   I too believe we should separate over false bibliology and that's what I want to talk about.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Scripture should provide our basis for separation.  We are separating over a doctrine or practice that the Bible teaches.  So we look to the Bible to find out what the it says about itself.  That sounds simple---just study the Bible.  And it is.  But not as simple as some make of it.  To come to the right position on an issue, I have taught five criteria to our church.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1.  &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Conversion&lt;/span&gt; --- The Holy Spirit illuminates those whom He indwells (1 Corinthians 2:13-14).&lt;br /&gt;2.  &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Study the Bible&lt;/span&gt; --- This is more than looking up verses in Strong's Concordance or checking out a commentary or systematic theology.  This means understanding the Words in their context, their syntax, the usage of those Words elsewhere, comparing scripture with scripture, etc. (2 Timothy 2:15).&lt;br /&gt;3.  &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Historic Confirmation&lt;/span&gt; --- Since no doctrine is new, we look to see whether people believed it in history.  If we can't find historic confirmation, we better have a lot of scriptural support to overturn what we do see in history.  History doesn't have authority, but we would expect a perpetuity for the truth---no total apostasy (2 Peter 1:20-21; 1 Timothy 4:1).&lt;br /&gt;4.  &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Church Agreement&lt;/span&gt; --- The New Testament church should agree with the position.  The Holy Spirit authenticates truth through those He indwells (1 Corinthians 3:16; John 16:13).&lt;br /&gt;5.  &lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Courage&lt;/span&gt; --- If the Bible tells us something different than what we believe and practice, we must be willing to change (Hebrews 11).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Having my above stated criteria in mind, what are some of the main points that we see about Scripture in Scripture?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Inspiration&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Pas graphe theopneustos kai ophelimos. &lt;/span&gt; 2 Timothy 3:16.  Every writing is God breathed and is profitable.  &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Graphe &lt;/span&gt;is an anarthrous (no definite article, "the") noun and the general rule is that an anarthrous adjective (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;theopneustos&lt;/span&gt;) related to an anarthrous noun (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pas graphe&lt;/span&gt;) is normally predicate.  Even though the&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; graphe&lt;/span&gt; is anarthrous, the&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; pas&lt;/span&gt; makes the noun &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;graphe&lt;/span&gt; as definite as the article, so the adjective, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;theopneustos&lt;/span&gt; must be predicate.  A copula is lacking, so it is supplied in the English.  The natural place the copula goes is between the subject (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pas graphe&lt;/span&gt;) and the first word that follows it (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;theopneustos&lt;/span&gt;).   It is normal for the copula to be left out when it is obvious to the audience where it should be.  It is obvious here.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We know that God breathed every writing in the past, but the assumption here is that what He breathed out continues to be that which He has breathed out, because it "is" breathed out by Him.  The adjective &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;theopneustos&lt;/span&gt; makes an assertion about the subject &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pas graphe&lt;/span&gt;.  Writings that were breathed out continue to be breathed out.  Like a child that is born continues to be born, the Words that God breathed continued to be His Words, continue to be breathed out by Him after He first breathed them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2 Timothy 3:16-17 teach the sufficiency of Scripture.  But what is sufficient?  It is&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt; pas graphe &lt;/span&gt;that is sufficient.  The assumption again is that we will have all of the Words.  If being throughly furnished unto every good work is dependent upon &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;pas graphe&lt;/span&gt; (every writing), then we would assume that we would have every writing.  This is a logical conclusion that we get from these two verses when we are attempting to get our doctrine from the actual verses of scripture.  We'll come back to this later, because it doesn't fit so much under the doctrine of inspiration.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The writings that God breathed out were Hebrew and Greek.  Those were what He inspired.   To say that English words are breathed out would be to say that God breathed out new Words after the completion of the canon (in contradiction to Revelation 22:18-19).  That is false bibliology.  Scripture doesn't say that.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So what about an English translation of those Hebrew and Greek writings? Is it inspired?  That is where we have to come up with some new bibliological words to describe inspiration as it relates to a translation.  I have no problem using the terminology "derivative inspiration."  An accurate translation that properly represents the Hebrew and Greek writings is derived from those writings.  With that in mind, we can call an English translation inspired.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;God's Words, which He breathed out, are different with Him having breathed them.  The Words have the breath of God in them.  How do we know this?  By what Scripture says about them.  At least two verses come to my mind:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;John 6:63, 68, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. . . .  [T]hou hast the words of eternal life."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Psalm 19:7-10 also validate that the Words that God breathed out are significantly extraordinary.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;How do men go astray on inspiration?  They believe in natural inspiration or conceptual inspiration.  They deny inspiration.  They don't believe every writing was inspired.  In certain cases men have taken a new position of "double inspiration," that is, that God had inspired the Hebrew and Greek writings, but He has done it again in an English translation, the King James Version.  All of these go astray from a scriptural position.  If we are going to protect the doctrine  of inspiration and honor what God has said, we must separate over it.  I think that is what Dave Doran is saying that he believes, that we separate over this scriptural doctrine.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;Canonicity&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="color: rgb(102, 0, 0);font-size:85%;" &gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;More to Come!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-5312729373949834214?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/5312729373949834214/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=5312729373949834214&amp;isPopup=true' title='16 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5312729373949834214'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/5312729373949834214'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/bibliology-and-separation.html' title='Bibliology and Separation'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>16</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-2495328388265985554</id><published>2009-09-08T13:07:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-09-08T14:21:24.908-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Honoring Joshua Bernard, Marine Corporal, and Bringing Awareness to Rules of Engagement</title><content type='html'>&lt;object height="255" width="420"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7W41Ef-6kDw&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;fs=1&amp;amp;"&gt;&lt;param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"&gt;&lt;param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7W41Ef-6kDw&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;fs=1&amp;amp;" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="255" width="420"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We've seen mainly controversy over the publishing of a photo of Marine Corporal Joshua Bernard and his recent death in Afghanistan.  To start though, I would like to honor his commitment to duty and service to our nation.  According to the testimony of his father in this video, his fellow Marines called him "holy man" because of his Godly witness for Jesus Christ.  His dad said that he was first and foremost a Christian.  That's what his father wanted to emphasize.  However, he ended and wanted to be very clear that this incident should bring to our attention the ROE, rules of engagement, of our soldiers in war.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Our soldiers are sent to these places, put in harms way, and are often sacrificed for American politics.  If we are going to send them, then we should allow them to protect themselves.  We see the same thing on American streets with our police officers.  Rules of engagement recently resulted in the death of three police officers, gunned down in the streets of Oakland, CA.  The Taliban and other foreign belligerents use non-combatants for cover.   They do this purposefully, knowing our rules of engagement to gain an advantage caused by political concerns.   Joshua Bernard was from Maine and the newspaper in Portland, Maine did an interview with his dad,  John Bernard, and we have this reported from that session:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;John Bernard said he blames his son's death on recently revised rules of engagement that essentially state troops can fire at an area if they are receiving fire and are in imminent danger, but if it's possible for them to move away from the area, they are to do so.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Several weeks before his son's death, John Bernard raised concerns about the rules in a letter sent to lawmakers. He wrote, "Our troops are nothing more than sitting ducks."&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"They're being fired upon and being told they can't fire back in fear of hitting civilians, which means Marines can die and ultimately can't protect civilians because they can't fire at the bad guys," John Bernard said. "It's not that they want to go out and kill women and children, but they can't fight like this."&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Wall Street Journal, just today, &lt;a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574398772057266610.html"&gt;wrote about this problem&lt;/a&gt; especially as it applies to the War in Afghanistan.   Here is &lt;a href="http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnews/2009/09/08/germany%E2%80%99s-merkel-under-seige-after-afghanistan-airstrike/"&gt;a recent example&lt;/a&gt; of the politics with German chancellor Angela Merkel coming under fire for a helicopter air strike that killed Afghan civilians.  &lt;a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-tc-nw-afghanistan-0827-0828aug28,0,3491924,print.story"&gt;Here's&lt;/a&gt; a Chicago Tribune article about a week ago that explains President Obama's role in making the rules of engagement more strict for American soldiers, threatening American lives.  This paragraph in a &lt;a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/01/AR2009090103908_pf.html"&gt;September 2, 2009 Washington Post article&lt;/a&gt; explains how the new rules of engagement has not only failed to protect American troops but also other Afghans.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;U.S. rules of engagement restricting the use of air power and aggressive action against civilians have also opened new space for the insurgents, officials said. Western development projects, such as new roads, schools and police stations, have provided fresh targets for Taliban roadside bombs and suicide attacks. The inability of rising numbers of American troops to protect Afghan citizens has increased resentment of the Western presence and the corrupt Afghan government that cooperates with it, the officials said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/681178"&gt;This August 14, 2009 article in the Toronto Star&lt;/a&gt; talks about the new rules of engagement, designed to prioritize Afghan civilians, harming the protection of American soldiers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What do you think of this?  I'm writing a letter to my congressman and Senators about rules of engagement in honor of Joshua Bernard.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-2495328388265985554?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/2495328388265985554/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=2495328388265985554&amp;isPopup=true' title='5 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/2495328388265985554'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/2495328388265985554'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/honoring-john-bernard-marine-corporal.html' title='Honoring Joshua Bernard, Marine Corporal, and Bringing Awareness to Rules of Engagement'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>5</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-683984723746612267</id><published>2009-09-07T10:00:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-09-12T22:08:16.187-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Does Accommodation to Culture Help Evangelism?</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Sidebox1-Inner-City-C.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 239px; height: 181px;" src="http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Sidebox1-Inner-City-C.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;My last post, an evaluation of Stephen Davis' article on church planters at SharperIron, triggered my thinking on a major theme in his piece, that is, the place of culture in the evangelism of the lost.  Here's the way Davis' pictured it:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;You might be surprised at how many people think that new churches should dance to the same tune as churches which have existed for decades with their well-established traditions. The traditions are not necessarily wrong but may be unnecessary barriers in planting an urban church among those unacquainted with those traditions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Davis earlier listed the traditions that he describes as "barriers":&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Suits and ties are still &lt;em&gt;de rigueur&lt;/em&gt;, morning and evening Sunday services with Wednesday night prayer meeting is the established pattern, the doctrinal statements exhibit great precision, and music is traditional.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Davis sees these as impediments to evangelism in the inner city.  As I look at his list, I don't see any significant cultural issue with the time churches choose to gather on Sunday and midweek or especially a doctrinal statement.  It seems that the music and dress are the two major contentions Davis thinks endanger evangelistic success.  Both of these occur at a church meeting, the assembling of saints for worship.  I'm stumped as to how they impede evangelism.  I understand how that they might turn off someone who wants to dress casual and prefers faster or more heavily syncopated rhythms or sensually styled composition to their music, but I can't see how that a suit and a tie and traditional music hold someone back from getting saved.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;These thoughts expressed by Davis in his essay expose a faulty soteriology.  They are a common way of thinking in modern evangelicalism or perhaps fundamentalism, if Davis would claim to be fundamentalist.   SharperIron proposes to be fundamentalist.  Nowhere does scripture show accommodation to the world's way of living to help the gospel itself or someone's comprehension of the gospel.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Certain behaviors can impede the gospel, but they are unscriptural ones.  Anything that fits within the perimeters of the Bible can't hinder the gospel.  What Davis is communicating is that conservative dress and music hinder evangelism.  Is that true?  What is it about suits and ties and sober, prudent, and discreet music that keep people from being saved?  Of course, there is nothing about them that would stymie someone's salvation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;An unsaved person thinks a certain way.  He loves himself and pleasure.  He likes his own way.  Therefore, he would like for his god to be all about himself, his pleasure, and his own way.   He fears death.  He'd like to have some peace about his thereafter, but he doesn't want to give up the pleasure or his way to see that accomplished.  Casual dress and modernistic music styles in his urban church plant send a signal to him that he can take care of that fear thing, while at the same time keeping his pleasure and own way.  He likes that his religion can revolve around himself and his needs or wants.   The casual dress and pop music fit right into his preconceptions.  The Stephen Davis' urban church plant feeds those preconceptions.  This is the Davis' idea of helping along the evangelism of the urban lost person.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Meeting the lusts of the lost does not aid evangelism.  It wasn't the strategy that Jesus used.  When an unsaved person came to Jesus to inquire of salvation, Jesus didn't feed his preconceptions.  He challenged them.  The unconverted need to know that salvation isn't going to be about them, but about God.  God is seeking for true worshipers, not taking applications for an eternal timeshare.  When the rich young ruler came to the Lord asking how he might obtain eternal life, Jesus didn't make it about something that he could get (Matthew 19:16-26).  When a certain scribe told Jesus that he wanted to follow Him, Jesus told him that the "Son of man hath not where to lay his head" (Matthew 8:20).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Davis offers an evangelistic methodology that will make sense to a lost person.  What we see with Jesus doesn't seem effective as a church growth strategy.  He didn't care about the demographic.  He went everywhere with the same message of repentance and faith.  Paul eschewed man-made techniques for evangelism.   Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is one Christianity, one worship, one Jesus, one gospel, and one faith and we are to preach it.  Just because the world doesn't get it, doesn't mean that we tweak it to fit the world's preconceptions.  We don't depend on the wisdom of men.  We preach the gospel.    Later in v. 10 Paul says that He reveals His saving truth by His Spirit.   The techniques that Davis propagates are the wisdom of men.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Jews required a sign, the Greeks wisdom, and the inner city person requires something else, according to Davis.  All of these things stand in the wisdom of men.  But God hasn't chosen to save people through man's wisdom.  Instead, God has chosen the things which people despise to bring men to salvation, "that no flesh should glory in his presence" (1 Corinthians 1:29).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would agree that we don't unnecessarily offend and especially someone's conscience.   Paul's idea of becoming all things to all men (1 Corinthians 9:22) was a sacrifice on his part.   For instance, he wouldn't eat certain food that he himself might like so as not to be a bad testimony to a Jew or a Gentile.  All of this sacrifice by Paul, not self-gratification, was intended to "adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things" (Titus 2:10).  The grace of God that brings salvation teaches to deny "worldly lusts" (Titus 2:12).  Accommodation to worldly lust tends toward the unsaved not being saved.  We should trust God's Word on this.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Accommodation to culture, that is, worldly lust, doesn't help evangelism.  It does not harmonize with the gospel.  It sends the wrong message to an urban community.  It sends a new church down the wrong path.  Instead, simplify the methodology.   Dress in a representative way of the message of the gospel and then go out and preach it to everyone.  Don't worry about whether they like your shirt and tie or the kind of music that you believe honors God.  Be concerned as to whether you are preaching the gospel boldly, completely, and accurately.  Depend on God.  Pray.  Live for the Lord.  Don't give up.  Keep evangelizing for His glory.  Teach new converts all things that Jesus commanded.  Preach the Word.  Confront sinning Christians in meekness to restore them to God-honoring living.  Support the weak.  Strengthen the feebleminded.  Warn the unruly.  Be patient with all men.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Forget the aspects of location, launch team, and demographics.  Know Scripture well.  Obey it.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-683984723746612267?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/683984723746612267/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=683984723746612267&amp;isPopup=true' title='44 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/683984723746612267'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/683984723746612267'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/does-accommodation-to-culture-help.html' title='Does Accommodation to Culture Help Evangelism?'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>44</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-7627534896515746165</id><published>2009-09-03T19:15:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2009-09-04T12:01:00.202-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Church Planting Foolishness</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://www.sharperiron.org/downloads/davis_steve.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 100px; height: 126px;" src="http://www.sharperiron.org/downloads/davis_steve.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;My wife happened to be sitting next to me when I was reading &lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/article/planting-urban-churches"&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt; on church planting over at SharperIron.  Yes, I look at their main post to see what they're talking about and I get sucked in.  The moral of the story might be to stop looking there any more.  I know that.  My wife, I think, was giving me more than a big hint when she said, "Looking at that stuff would make me so mad that I wouldn't want to see it."  Hmmmm.  Very valid.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The article, entitled &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Planting Urban Churches&lt;/span&gt;, was written by Stephen Davis, someone who has taken a liking to influencing the young and restless fundamentalists and fundamentalist frauds at SharperIron.  He is at a theologically correct location, Calvary Baptist Theological Seminary, and he has the credibility to make the connection---culturally, the deco black shirt and goatee beard, and educationally, the D. Min. in "Missiology" from the Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, IL.   Davis doesn't have to build a blog audience, just plunk in the driver's seat of the bus that is SharperIron and take everyone for a spin.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Davis' article makes me feel sick to my stomach, renewing my wife's suggestion to let these things go.  But I want to tell you what's so wrong about it, make it a teaching moment.  Forget the title of his article.  He's not about churches.  He's about some kind of group or club or institution, but not a church.   You'll note the lack of scripture in his article.  When you hear "Missiology" from Trinity you might not want to think the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A group across the street from us has exploded in numbers with their rock concert platform, uber-casual apparel, and carnal entertainment.  Their leader comes from Trinity.  People gather to hear a month long series on U2 lyrics or an "outreach" centered on the Hollywood film, &lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;Evan Almighty&lt;/span&gt;.  The Trinity graduate will admit that most of the people who come are unconverted.  There's your Missiology.  Something's definitely Missing; it's God's Word.  It's fun though.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When I read Davis and watch the other Trinity grad, I think they could be twins.  They both have the "I'm authentic" get-up required by the zeitgeist.  They talk the same about the church.  If the world is the NFL, they're both wearing the replica jersey, at the same time insisting that they're not in the game.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;What Davis Describes&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nothing called church planting, urban or rural, should look like what Davis describes.  He shouldn't be listened to as an expert.  It's up to you, but you've been warned.  I'm convinced that there shouldn't be able to be an entire doctorate that could be gotten in something called Missiology.  I recommend to anyone---just study the Bible---imitate what you read there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And what is it you read there?  You start by going out evangelizing.  And guess what?  The gospel is the same for rural, urban, kids, adults, elderly, grunge, biker dudes, and university professors.   Remember that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16)?   Remember that it is spiritual weaponry that pulls down strongholds (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)?  Remember that the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17)?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;But that's not why the urban church doesn't grow, according to Davis.  We've got to assume from what he writes that "meaningful relationships" are required with people "outside the church" in order to evangelize them.  And why don't we have those relationships?  He says because of "personal separation issues" and "traditional taboos."  This is Trinity speak you're hearing.  You get it from your Missiology D. Min.  It means "you gotta be likem to winnem."  For armchair theologians, it is Pelagian influence.  And it is definitely you winnin' 'em with your missiological technique.  In the end, you get the glory too (see 1 Corinthians 1-2 on this)!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What you really have to do is to get to everybody with the gospel.  That's what Jesus said (Mark 16:15).  When you do that, the lost will hate it.  They walk in darkness and hate the light.  Because love is supernatural, you can keep loving your enemies and Jesus says that they'll like that---being loved.  It's not going to depend on what beans you choose for your cappuccino.  Davis is saying that they'll like the light if you offer it to them in a fancy container, maybe with a label in graffiti font.   The young church planter, Davis says, has a dilemma.  If he is to succeed he's going to have to make a choice to burn some bridges with the mother church.  The pews, the traditional hymns, and the reverent appearance all spell church planting disaster for the Davis system.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What's ironic is that these things of which Davis speaks are just window dressing.  They don't matter.  But they are really everything to the church planter.   He's doing the planting.   You can see that plainly when Davis writes:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;When people ask me how to plant a church, what steps need to be taken, I try to explain that church planting is more of an art than a science.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;An art?  What?   The kind of brush strokes you make is what will will have the greatest impact, he says.  This is the difference between success and failure in the urban community.  He's reading right from the Rick Warren playbook on this.  Ignore him.  Listen to him at your own peril.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This seems to be the paradigm that Davis learned in his Missiology work at Trinity:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Church planting involves numerous details such as strategy, demographic studies, fund raising, location, and gathering a leadership and launch team.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Wow.  That's foolishness.  The world won't think it is, but it is foolishness.  Run away from his thoughts as quickly as you can.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Love the Lord Jesus.  Go and evangelize.  Learn your Bible.  Preach it.  Love people.  Worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth.  That is the simplicity of all of it.  How big will you get?  I don't know, but what does it matter?  God will be glorified.  It's not going to make one bit of difference whether you have pews or padded seats.  If the key is the big screen and powerpoint, then you are doing something very wrong.  Know this.  If you think the difference maker is the microphone head attachment, then you've got deep problems in your scriptural understanding.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Scripture doesn't present church planting.  It presents evangelism that might end in a church being organized if people are saved.  You don't need any of the things that Davis says you need.  My first recommendation would be:  don't take Missiology like Davis did.  Know your Bible.  Know the gospel.  Preach it.  It's powerful.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In his last paragraph, Davis crescendos:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Neither should church planters be expected to adhere to extra-biblical, albeit longstanding traditions (&lt;span style="font-style: italic;"&gt;sic&lt;/span&gt;) which would be impositions on a new church and deform its identity. There should be mutual respect and humility between church planters and their sending churches.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This is a bunch of socio-economic psychobabble with all of the catchphrases included.  Deform its identity?   Come on!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;New converts don't need to be dressed up in a suit and tie, but the pastor wearing these will have zero impact on the newly saved.  He has become a partaker of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:1-4).  He won't go out from you, because now He is of you (1 John 2:19).   Be glad that you have a different culture than the world---your music is different and your dress is different.  Don't be ashamed of that, any of it.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;The Reaction&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So what's the reaction of the SharperIronites?  I'm thankful to say that &lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/article/planting-urban-churches#comment-4294"&gt;the new owner wasn't so convince&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/article/planting-urban-churches#comment-4294"&gt;d&lt;/a&gt;, even though he did publish the trash.  &lt;a href="http://www.sharperiron.org/article/planting-urban-churches#comment-4290"&gt;Another comment&lt;/a&gt; reads of the typical new postmodern flavor.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Great article. The dynamic here between the more "traditionalist" approach and the less "traditionalist" is not just seen in new churches that are "inter-city." Great work.....looking forward to seeing more on this. I like the idea that both sides must be careful. Both sides must show charity. Both sides must be what they believe God wants them to be.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course, this assumes that the old way was only tradition.  It always was tradition.  Does anyone see the disrespect here?  The way churches operated were just tradition.  The new way, the outside-the-box modernistic methods, what's that?  So they show charity and both agree that both sides are right?  There is a mammoth chasm between them culturally, but those differences are meaningless---that would be the point.  Really?  Is that true?  Of course not.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One of the young fundamentalists writes this:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;More "close to home" is a friend of mine who wanted to rent out a theater for showings of "The Passion of the Christ" in his very secular culture--and found himself afoul of the "theaters are evil" conviction of his constituency.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"The Passion of the Christ" as an evangelistic tool, harmonizing with Stephen Davis.  Renting out the theater.  All of this about reaching a very secular culture.  We've got secular, very secular, soft serve, and chocolate fudge.  Where do we get this type of thinking?  Missiology.   Did Jesus do anything like this?  Paul?  Not all all.  It's not just foolish.  It's faithless.  It's a way that can't just trust what God said to do.  The scriptural way isn't sufficient.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There should be outrage over this faithless foolishness.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-7627534896515746165?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/7627534896515746165/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=7627534896515746165&amp;isPopup=true' title='23 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/7627534896515746165'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/7627534896515746165'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/church-planting-foolishness.html' title='Church Planting Foolishness'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>23</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-8376122254998698064</id><published>2009-09-02T21:05:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-09-02T21:47:22.440-07:00</updated><title type='text'>A True Statement on Dealing with a Disagreement on an Issue</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://palabraspuras.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/doran.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 150px; height: 160px;" src="http://palabraspuras.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/doran.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Dave Doran, pastor of Inter-City Baptist Church and president of Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, recently made this statement over at &lt;a href="http://gloryandgrace.dbts.edu/?p=29"&gt;his blog&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;As an example, if someone wants to preach a message on women never wearing pants, then the burden on me would be to evaluate the arguments that are made and, if I disagree, show where I believe the preacher is incorrect. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I applaud that statement and am always hopeful for this to be the case on issues.   Often it is not.  Sometimes Dr. Doran and I might disagree on certain doctrines and practice, so I wanted to make notice of a hearty agreement with this point he made.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As a bit of a side note, I've never preached a message on women never wearing pants.  I have preached sermons on Deuteronomy 22:5 and 1 Corinthians 11:3-16.  I like to have the discussion surround the text itself.  It is often a dodge when the direction turns first to the application in the culture, instead of the text from which the practice comes.  With any issue, we start with the study of Scripture.  We also look for historical interpretation.  And then we look at the application of the text and the history of its application among believers.  This is what I would hope from Dr. Doran as well on an issue such as he uses as an illustration in his blog post.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-8376122254998698064?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/8376122254998698064/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=8376122254998698064&amp;isPopup=true' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8376122254998698064'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/8376122254998698064'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/09/true-statement-on-dealing-with.html' title='A True Statement on Dealing with a Disagreement on an Issue'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20213892.post-1747824279777039920</id><published>2009-08-24T15:39:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2009-08-31T19:19:54.028-07:00</updated><title type='text'>WOT</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://pastorandpeople.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/word-of-truth-logo.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 456px; height: 286px;" src="http://pastorandpeople.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/word-of-truth-logo.jpg" alt="" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;WORD OF TRUTH CONFER&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-weight: bold;"&gt;ENCE HEADQUARTERS&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The information for the Word of Truth Conference will be stored at this site.  More and more will be added as the time gets closer.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The dates for the 2009 Word of Truth Conference are November 11-15, Wednesday through Sunday.   During the evenings of Wednesday through Friday, there will be two preaching sessions per night.  Thursday to Saturday mornings will feature sessions on the doctrine of ecclesiastical separation.  On Thursday and Friday mornings, there will be an extra preaching session as well.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Supper will be served to guests on Wednesday to Friday nights.  Lunch will be served on Thursday to Sunday afternoons.  The conference is at Bethel Baptist Church, 4905 Appian Way, El Sobrante, CA  94803 (&lt;a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;q=4905+Appian+Way++El+Sobrante,+CA&amp;amp;fb=1&amp;amp;split=1&amp;amp;gl=us&amp;amp;cid=0,0,1810653307498786748&amp;amp;ei=PoScSpKBG4bUtgP59OiYDg&amp;amp;ll=37.977357,-122.298603&amp;amp;spn=0.008068,0.016372&amp;amp;z=16&amp;amp;iwloc=A"&gt;map&lt;/a&gt;).  We will keep you updated on a possible conference hotel if you want to take advantage of a conference pricing.  &lt;a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;amp;source=s_q&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;geocode=&amp;amp;q=hotel&amp;amp;sll=37.977357,-122.298603&amp;amp;sspn=0.064544,0.130978&amp;amp;gl=us&amp;amp;ie=UTF8&amp;amp;z=12"&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is a google map with various hotels nearby the church property.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SpyDf3Xya-I/AAAAAAAAAlM/moS4GTwFvhg/s1600-h/GaryWebb.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 136px; height: 186px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SpyDf3Xya-I/AAAAAAAAAlM/moS4GTwFvhg/s200/GaryWebb.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5376316638636436450" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dr. Gary Webb, pastor of Calvary Baptist Church of Carrboro, North Carolina will teach one of the sessions on separation and preach one other occasion during the week.  Pastor Bobby Mitchell, pastor of Mid-Coast Baptist Church of Brunswick, Maine will also teach one separation time and preach once.  Other pastors in attendance may be preaching other times, since this is a preaching conference.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you are coming, the RSVP for the conference is &lt;a href="https://www.rsvpmenow.com/rsvpbeta/?id=20395"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Click on that to let us know you're coming.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/20213892-1747824279777039920?l=kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/feeds/1747824279777039920/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=20213892&amp;postID=1747824279777039920&amp;isPopup=true' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/1747824279777039920'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/20213892/posts/default/1747824279777039920'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2009/08/wot.html' title='WOT'/><author><name>Kent Brandenburg</name><uri>http://www.blogger.com/profile/13419354741455959191</uri><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:extendedProperty xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' name='OpenSocialUserId' value='17690844153504173699'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6vU-SdNfkYs/SpyDf3Xya-I/AAAAAAAAAlM/moS4GTwFvhg/s72-c/GaryWebb.jpg' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'>2</thr:total></entry></feed>