Comments on The Anonymous Liberal: Some Thoughts

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2008-04-08T01:42:00.000-05:00

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It isnt just the church, his known mob friends wh...

2008-03-19T01:01:00.000-05:00

It isnt just the church, his known mob friends who gave money to his campaign, or the ties to a known professor who was accuse and admitted to trying to blow up the white house and pentigon and said he would do it again. oR his know proud to be an american since her husband wants to be president, experience is to be our county`s leader who followed Wright for twenty plus yrs,, who married him and his proud american wife, and babtisted his children, doesnt that make anyone else uncomfortable.

C2H50H said... Yeah, Obama should have found a nic...

2008-03-19T00:52:00.000-05:00

C2H50H said...
Yeah, Obama should have found a nice, white church, and gone there. Maybe Nal's church,(((OR THE ONE TOM BELONGS TO>>
They'd have welcomed him with open arms, I'm sure, and he'd have felt right at home.

Or maybe he should have just terminated his church membership entirely. That would have made all the
THIS IS THE MENTALITY OF WRIGHT and YOU ARE A RACIST>>> BUT OOH NO
NO AFRICAN AMER BIAS JUST THE OTHER WAY >>> IGNORANT>>> REMARKS LIKE THIS IS WHAT KEEPS RACISM ALIVE. Just because a African Amer. associates with a white person doesnt mean he wishes or wants to be white. I personally go to a black church and I am white, i love it I find its more spritual than any other church i have attended, its not the church in this case ITS WRIGHT < YOU IGNORANT AZZ

Same philosophy

2008-03-17T13:56:00.000-05:00

Same philosophy

Well he is WHITE

2008-03-17T13:55:00.000-05:00

Well he is WHITE

Mansion is Obamas new spiritual advisor

2008-03-17T13:52:00.000-05:00

Mansion is Obamas new spiritual advisor

Barak Obama as a struggling black man among privil...

2008-03-16T21:11:00.000-05:00

Barak Obama as a struggling black man among privileged whites is a hard sell. Obama is a very wealthy man, and a member of the plutocracy. He has more wealth and more power than any of the white people I know.

"Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, and James Dobson, men who have track records of saying crazy, hate-filled things that Rev. Wright can't possibly compete with.."

I notice when liberals seek to coin axioms such as the above, they are very short on examples...The first three PR, JF, JH are indeed prone to crazy utterances, but oh I think Rev. Wright can hold his own... seriously a man who wants people to sing "god damn America." Barak has been in this guy's church for two decades and given thousands of $...oh, and the warm feeling Rev. Wright has for Louis Farakhan...a comparable thing would be for McCain's longtime spiritual advisor to be an admirer of David Duke...think that wouldn't be front page?

Yeah, Obama should have found a nice, white church...

2008-03-16T21:07:00.000-05:00

Yeah, Obama should have found a nice, white church, and gone there. Maybe Nal's church, or the one Tom belongs to.

They'd have welcomed him with open arms, I'm sure, and he'd have felt right at home.

Or maybe he should have just terminated his church membership entirely. That would have made all the white voters happy.

It's not just the fact that conservatives are quic...

2008-03-16T18:14:00.000-05:00

It's not just the fact that conservatives are quick to call someone like Wright an anti-American, hate-filled bigot without ever directing any similar scrutiny towards the Pat Robertsons and John Hagees of the world.

Are those who are willing to direct similar scrutiny towards the Pat Robertsons and John Hagees of the world, willing to direct it at someone like Wright? Or are they willing to excuse Wright's behavior
because he's somehow like a rape victim? There's a double standard with conservatives, but I also see a double standard with Hilzoy making excuses.

Obama, by remaining a member of this church, shows a serious lack of judgment.

I think it's unfortunate that a politician as inte...

2008-03-16T17:48:00.000-05:00

I think it's unfortunate that a politician as intelligent and capable as Obama should come along to claim the Democrat presidency, only to have to run against some of the most skilled Democrat tacticians around (the Clintons). By applying the same tactics they've used to counteract Republicans to try to beat Obama, they're weakening the Democratic position.

I'm also not sure what Rev. Wright said that people find so very controversial. From the articles I've read, Wright has said that the U.S. government is racist (true), that we support state terrorism against the Palestinians and South Africans (true), and that 9-11 was blowback from U.S. military actions overseas (true). Why do these statements of truth qualify as hate-speech? Because Rush Limbaugh said so?

Steveil:Well Wright and I served our country in th...

2008-03-16T12:01:00.000-05:00

Steveil:

Well Wright and I served our country in the US military so I'm guessing we've done more for our country than you. However, if recognizing American imperialism and its terrible effects makes me a communist (Huh?) then so be it.

How about evaluating Obama by what he says and bel...

2008-03-15T18:08:00.000-05:00

How about evaluating Obama by what he says and believes?

Actions speak louder than words. He can say "we need to move past the anger" a thousand times, but if he really believed it, why stay in a church whose leader has clearly not moved past the anger?

Also, I don't remember the media scrutinizing sermons by Mitt Romney's mormon spiritual leaders. Ditto for George Bush or any other prominent Republican. I don't even think reporters bothered exploring Mike Huckabee's sermons, which he wrote personally.

If they had explored these topics, Republicans would have cried foul.

IIRC Huckabee managed to keep his sermons under lock and key, which was reported as troubling.

Neither Romney nor Bush presented themselves as uniquely qualified to heal Americas racial and religious divides, so pondering the true nature of their racial and spiritual background seems a bit pointless.

If Obama supporters really want to pretend that it is his superior health care plan that has caused all the excitement about his "historic" candidacy, fine.

For the rest of us, its pretty clear that his message of racial reconciliation has been important. And since we are talking about a guy with a miniscule public record, we seek clues where we can. And given his long and close association with Wright, it is a big clue that, at a minimum, Obama hasn't worked much magic as a reconciler.

That, BTW, is why the McCain/Hagee thing is a non-story - neither reporters nor the public are wondering if they truly know the "real" John McCain, nor are they wracked by doubt as to whether the guy who has been in the public eye for decades is authentic.

Tom Maguire

Don't like what I say? Too bad. Let me add this:...

2008-03-15T15:28:00.000-05:00

Don't like what I say? Too bad. Let me add this: while there is still racism in this country, it isn't even close to what it was 30, 40, 50, or 100 years ago. The fact that a man like Barack Obama is doing this well in the 2008 Presidential campaign (up until this point) is proof of it. What Wright spews (along with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Louis Farrakhan) doesn't exist as it did. There's no doubt there is some racism, and it must be battled. But holding all of today's Americans guilty of those sins is simply ridiculous, especially since today's Americans are against racism by anybody.

In fact, if one wants look at the problem of racism by whites towards African-Americans, one only has to look at the entertainment industry massively promoting the "gangsta" image, and all the garbage that entails. And those doing it are doing so only for the money.

Do you think Obama is going to heal racial diversi...

2008-03-15T13:37:00.000-05:00

Do you think Obama is going to heal racial diversity in this country? I work in a situation that seventy-five percent of my students are African American and I hear racial slurs everyday from them toward the white part of the student body, my white students would be kicked out of this program, if they even dared to say things that they do. Double standards, I think so. The racism in this county is fueled by people like Wright, and Skin heads , and general ignorance and lack of education. IT IS unfortunate that our country once enslaved African Americans, Native Americans, Chinese, and Whites. Slavery has been around since the beginning of the world in all counties.. Give it a rest.
THIS IS AMERICA ANYONE OF ANY RACE CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT AND MAKE CHOICES TO CHANGE THEIR LIVES>

Tom writes:Obama has claimed that he is well quali...

2008-03-15T13:29:00.000-05:00

Tom writes:
Obama has claimed that he is well qualified to heal the racial and religious divisions in this country.

How should people evaluate that claim when they see how unreconciled Obama's minister and spiritual adviser is? Especially if you want to put the minister alongside the "never proud to be an Americn" wife.

How about evaluating Obama by what he says and believes? Also, you might not want to render judgment about who Wright is and what he believes based on a few cherry-picked excerpts. That's not the sum total of who the man is or what he preaches.

And do you seriously believe that every black minister preaches in roughly that tone? I am sure Wright is not unique, but I don't know that he is mainstream, either.

Of course I don't believe all black ministers preach in that tone. In fact, Wright himself usually doesn't preach in that tone. I also know that all white ministers aren't douchebags like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. My point was that Wright's statements aren't all that inflammatory when compared to statements routinely made by white Christian ministers who are all considered mainstream enough for prominent Republicans to seek their endorsements. There's a major double-standard at work here. White religious leaders are allowed to say a lot of crazy, ignorant, bigoted stuff without creating controversy. Black religious leaders are not.

Also, I don't remember the media scrutinizing sermons by Mitt Romney's mormon spiritual leaders. Ditto for George Bush or any other prominent Republican. I don't even think reporters bothered exploring Mike Huckabee's sermons, which he wrote personally.

If they had explored these topics, Republicans would have cried foul.

Please note, when engaging with the SteveIL, that1...

2008-03-15T12:29:00.000-05:00

Please note, when engaging with the SteveIL, that

1. He lacks the weaponry to engage in a battle of wits. Would you shoot an unarmed man?

2. You might as well try to shine a light into a black hole as argue with him. His ignorance and intellect render him immune to logic.

3. He'll never let you have the last word.

Treat him properly, as comic relief, is my advice.

Obama has claimed that he is well qualified to hea...

2008-03-15T12:23:00.000-05:00

Obama has claimed that he is well qualified to heal the racial and religious divisions in this country.

How should people evaluate that claim when they see how unreconciled Obama's minister and spiritual adviser is? Especially if you want to put the minister alongside the "never proud to be an Americn" wife.

And do you seriously believe that every black minister preaches in roughly that tone? I am sure Wright is not unique, but I don't know that he is mainstream, either.

Tom Maguire

Ah then Steveil, most of us African-Americans are ...

2008-03-15T11:36:00.000-05:00

Ah then Steveil, most of us African-Americans are racist because we believe that the White Imperialists are responsible for oppression around the world.

If you, J, believe that U.S. Imperialists are responsible for oppression around the world, then you are a Communist. If you believe that White Imperialists are responsible for the oppression around the world, then you are a racist and a Communist.

In either case, it doesn't matter about your being an Afican-American. You're not any kind of American.

Ah then Steveil, most of us African-Americans are ...

2008-03-15T11:22:00.000-05:00

Ah then Steveil, most of us African-Americans are racist because we believe that the White Imperialists are responsible for oppression around the world.

The bottomline is that Wright is controversial bec...

2008-03-15T11:08:00.000-05:00

The bottomline is that Wright is controversial because he's black.

No, Wright is controversial because he's a racist. He's no better than the white-hooded terrorists of the KKK, the swastika-laden uniformed terrorists of Nazis and neo-Nazis, or the racist rants of those preaching at the Nation of Islam.

But, it isn't really about Wright. It calls into question Obama's judgment for the last 20 years of going to this church and hearing this racist preach, and Obama calling Wright a "spiritual adviser". Obama wants to be the President; yet, how can anyone trust what he'll do based on the kinds of judgments he's made?

That's why conservatives know Obama to be an empty suit; nobody knew what he was about or what he stood for, but "liberals" liked his "message", despite not knowing what was behind it. Now that the American people are getting a good look, they don't like it. But it isn't because Obama is black (which by the way, he is actually half Kenyan, and half British and/or Irish, based on his mother's maiden name), which can be attested to by how many millions of white "liberals" are supporting him and voting for him.

I am pretty impressed by the political instincts s...

2008-03-15T11:06:00.001-05:00

I am pretty impressed by the political instincts shown by the Obama Campaign. They disowned Wright as they had to do. And Obama's response to Ferraro (I believe the one I heard was on NPR) was also just right, in my opinion.

I agree with you on the Clinton Campaign, and if they continue on this tack they truly risk deflating much of the enthusiasm on the Democratic side. Dangerous.

Hope they haven't worked you to the bone AL, look forward to reading you more often.

Whatever you might think about Wright, his languag...

2008-03-15T11:06:00.000-05:00

Whatever you might think about Wright, his language and voice is something that upsets lots of people. We have to, at times, take the electorate for what it is, and that requires Obama to distance himself from the guy - which he did on Friday. No amount of push back or reasoning is going to change the negative perception of Wright.

Re Clinton: She says it was Obama's "choice" to not be on the Michigan ballot. It was Hillary Clinton's "choice" to agree to the DNC policy about early unsanctioned primaries (i.e. ignore them). End of discussion.

Oh it wasn't just conservatives who called him ant...

2008-03-15T10:42:00.000-05:00

Oh it wasn't just conservatives who called him anti-American. So called progressive bloggers did the same thing.

As not one Democrat came out to say "Look, he's done a lot to help oppressed people, here and abroad, and he's really just using the fiery biblical prophetic style of talking, but his larger points are about oppression and imperialism so don't get all worked up about it," Democrats are going to have to kiss the Black church vote good bye.

That of course means that on top of us African-Americans who are done with Clinton for her BS race based campaign strategy the Democrats will lose the single most reliable voting group. Maybe not all of us. Some of us are too forgiving. But enough to make it impossible for a Democrat to get elected president.

The fact is progressives and Democrats should have pushed back but they didn't and we damn sure see the double standard at work. It'll certainly be a topic of conversation in black churches all over this country.

A.L.,Good post. I agree, it's the Obama camp that...

2008-03-15T09:33:00.000-05:00

A.L.,

Good post. I agree, it's the Obama camp that are the adults in the campaign. I'm just hoping that, for once, the Clintons have underestimated the understanding of the people.

anonymous,

I don't think Rev. Wright is a hate-filled bigot, he's the pastor of a largely black church in Chicago, where there is (perhaps you've heard) more than a century-long history of discrimination against black Americans.

I've watched the videos, and frankly, over the last thirty years, I've said to myself many of the same things he's saying.

What he says is harsh, yes, but it isn't outright bigotry. I've heard bigotry, spoken and acted out by those I've respected and been associated with. If I had distanced myself from everybody who exhibited, from time to time, violent anger against the system or some part of it, I'd be somewhere near the South Pole right now.

And yes, Wright is being criticized for voicing what a lot of older black people have come to believe about America.

I see nothing here except an attempt to justify guilt by association, and I don't really think it will work, except among that group of people who are, themselves, bigoted.

anonymous, go read hilzoy at obsidianwings for som...

2008-03-15T09:26:00.000-05:00

anonymous, go read hilzoy at obsidianwings for some really thorough evaluations of Wright and Obama.

This was a good post. I had never actually realized the fact that Obama has never gone attacking Clinton about her general election electibility. Because he is concerned about the good of the party/nation and the Clintons are concerned about themselves.