Comments on Secondhand Smoke: Your 24/7 Seminar on Bioethics and the Importance of Being Human: Teen Suicide Epidemic Puzzles the Netherlands: It ...

Now a day’s numbers of suicide case of troubled te...

2008-07-01T22:55:00.000-07:00

Now a day’s numbers of suicide case of troubled teens has been revealed. These teenagers think that suicide is a best way to solve every problem. Actually they become more mentally disturbed at that time.

http://www.ala4christ.com/

The absolute numbers of suicide for people younger...

2008-03-31T13:14:00.000-07:00

The absolute numbers of suicide for people younger than 20 years in the Netherlands between 1995 and 2006 were (at 16½ million inhabitants):

1995-1999 49 (this is an average per year over this period)
2000-2004 42 (again, an average per year over this period)
2005-2006 51 (an average over these 2 years)

I am wondering what caused the ‘sharp decline’ and the subsequent ‘sharp rise’.
(source: http://www.cbs.nl/NR/rdonlyres/84CFEED4-01C2-4FE4-9F81-44DF3F43728F/0/2007k4b15p73art.pdf)

uvraashi: You didn't leave me an e-mail and your p...

2008-03-03T22:44:00.000-08:00

uvraashi: You didn't leave me an e-mail and your profile doesn't have one. Please contact a mental health professional immediately because it sounds as if you are right to be concerned. Young people sometimes do this. He may be depressed and there are treatments. Better safe than sorry. Contact someone today. WJS

I am mother of 23 years old boy. He always talks ...

2008-03-03T22:26:00.000-08:00

I am mother of 23 years old boy. He always talks about suicide. Can he seriously take this step? Please suggest me what I have to do. I am worried about it. What are the symptoms ofteen suicide.

http://www.troubledteensearch.com/

Hi, OdieS. Thanks for writing.The connection is t...

2007-12-10T11:29:00.000-08:00

Hi, OdieS. Thanks for writing.

The connection is that the Netherlands sends a mixed message about self killing as an answer to human difficulties. How can it permit euthanasia/assisted suicide for the sick and disabled--and even depressed and grieving (the Chabot case)--and then tell depressed and troubled teens that self killing is not for them? It is like telling kids not to smoke but if they do, use a filter cigarette.

Hi,I'm a parent and I'm living and raising in the ...

2007-12-10T11:03:00.000-08:00

Hi,

I'm a parent and I'm living and raising in the Netherlands. The Netherlands has little sunlight in the winter and this in itself can facilitate depression. Further there is a very strong middle class in the Netherlands, a strong social pressure to stay within the middle range at schools.
I fail to see a link to euthanasia.

Come now, Jennie. I'm sure they have irony Down Un...

2006-09-01T12:20:00.000-07:00

Come now, Jennie. I'm sure they have irony Down Under. Read more closely.

"I would have to disagree with this assesment; as ...

2006-09-01T11:16:00.000-07:00

"I would have to disagree with this assesment; as Wesley pointed out, it doesn't seem very logical. There is a seemingly small but important difference between condemning people who want to commit suicide and condemning the act itself while encouraging people to be more open about conditions like depression which may lead to suicide; this what most people and programs attempting to prevent suicide aim to do. In fact, I think that trying our outmost to prevent people from taking their own lives can have a positive effect, as it lets these people know that their lives are so important and have such value that committing suicide would be a tragedy. Simply giving them the choice to do it, to me at least, is a bit (and quite possibly a lot)like telling them the opposite. I think that in many cases, the only reason suicidal people appear to be condemned by others is that their lives are viewed as having too much value, and these people viewed as being too important, to die that way. Speaking from my own personal experience, I never cease to be thankful that my own family saw the possiblity of me committing suicide so horrible that they did everything they could to prevent it. If they and the culture at large had the kind of attitude prevalent in the Netherlands, I might not be here today."

You raise some good points, but depressed people are unlikely to distinguish between people "hating the sinner" and "hating the sin". I would know, because I've been depressed before.

Suicide is not a slap in the face to loved ones. Rather, it is an indication that even with their support, life is still not worth living.

There's also a large difference between treatable and untreatable depression.

Wesley:

"Gee, Winston Jen. You sure have my number. Why, if I had experienced trouble in my life, I would want to kill suffering people. Such as my dad who died of colon cancer after a 2 1/2 year desperate fight, and my uncle, who just died of Alzheimer's. And the people who I became close to as a hospice volunteer."

Yes, it seems that torture is not your style.

BTW, what would you do to stop terminally ill patients from stockpiling morphine so they can take an overdose if the pain gets too bad?

Also, if there was just one patient with MND who became a mass-murderer to make a point (i.e. that the terminally ill have far LESS to lose than pro-lifers), I think almost all opposition to voluntary euthanasia would suddenly vanish.

"But, in my 57 years, I have never had any problems. Not even a paper cut!!! If I had, I would surely embrace suicide."

Finally, some honesty.

"Sorry, but your contributions are growing increasingly banal."

So are yours. You're essentially supporting slavery.

Gee, Winston Jen. You sure have my number. Why, i...

2006-08-31T21:04:00.000-07:00

Gee, Winston Jen. You sure have my number. Why, if I had experienced trouble in my life, I would want to kill suffering people. Such as my dad who died of colon cancer after a 2 1/2 year desperate fight, and my uncle, who just died of Alzheimer's. And the people who I became close to as a hospice volunteer.

But, in my 57 years, I have never had any problems. Not even a paper cut!!! If I had, I would surely embrace suicide.

Sorry, but your contributions are growing increasingly banal.

Yup. Again: "People who disagree with me must have...

2006-08-31T10:56:00.000-07:00

Yup. Again: "People who disagree with me must have led perfect lives with no problems at all." Yup.

"Winston Jen: What world do you live in? Nobody tr...

2006-08-31T08:35:00.000-07:00

"Winston Jen: What world do you live in? Nobody treats suicidal peole as "evil." Good grief. If you can't argue from reality, quit arguing."

Get real. By stating that owning your own life and controling your own death is part of "extreme autonomy", you are indirectly telling ALL suicidal people that they are being evil for simply being suicidal.

Once someone feels so bad about themselves that they think suicide is the only solution, they've gone through more than anyone should ever have to.

On the other hand, Wesley, I doubt you've ever experienced as much as a paper cut in your life.

Winston Jen: What world do you live in? Nobody tr...

2006-08-31T07:33:00.000-07:00

Winston Jen: What world do you live in? Nobody treats suicidal peole as "evil." Good grief. If you can't argue from reality, quit arguing.

"Ah, Winston Jen. Trying to prevent suicides, caus...

2006-08-31T03:46:00.000-07:00

"Ah, Winston Jen. Trying to prevent suicides, causes them. Good logic."

Treating the suicidal as "evil depressed people" makes them MORE likely to kill themselves.

Preventing people from getting access to euthanasia encourages them to kill themselves before they get forced to go into a hospice.

It seems to me that depression caused by condemnin...

2006-08-30T23:14:00.000-07:00

It seems to me that depression caused by condemning people who want to commit suicide is more likely to increase the rate of suicides

I would have to disagree with this assesment; as Wesley pointed out, it doesn't seem very logical. There is a seemingly small but important difference between condemning people who want to commit suicide and condemning the act itself while encouraging people to be more open about conditions like depression which may lead to suicide; this what most people and programs attempting to prevent suicide aim to do. In fact, I think that trying our outmost to prevent people from taking their own lives can have a positive effect, as it lets these people know that their lives are so important and have such value that committing suicide would be a tragedy. Simply giving them the choice to do it, to me at least, is a bit (and quite possibly a lot)like telling them the opposite. I think that in many cases, the only reason suicidal people appear to be condemned by others is that their lives are viewed as having too much value, and these people viewed as being too important, to die that way. Speaking from my own personal experience, I never cease to be thankful that my own family saw the possiblity of me committing suicide so horrible that they did everything they could to prevent it. If they and the culture at large had the kind of attitude prevalent in the Netherlands, I might not be here today.

Ah, Winston Jen. Trying to prevent suicides, caus...

2006-08-30T22:08:00.000-07:00

Ah, Winston Jen. Trying to prevent suicides, causes them. Good logic.

It seems to me that depression caused by condemnin...

2006-08-30T20:21:00.000-07:00

It seems to me that depression caused by condemning people who want to commit suicide is more likely to increase the rate of suicides.

In Australia, for example, we have a high teen suicide rate, but not all "suspicious deaths" are recorded as suicides, so the actual figure may well be underestimated.

You'd think that people would see the simple logic...

2006-08-30T18:38:00.000-07:00

You'd think that people would see the simple logic here, but if they insist on making themselves stupid and denying that killing really is not a solution to human suffering, as they can't not know, then I suppose such stupidity is to be expected.