Comments on The Odyssey of Samwise Gamgee: Chapter Three: The Quest For Discipleship

Dear Spidey --I usually read and don't comment, bu...

2008-08-17T14:58:00.000-07:00

Dear Spidey --

I usually read and don't comment, but OMG -- Evangelism Explosion! And you emerged with your sanity! Now THAT'S a miracle.

I cannot tell you how MUCH I despise EE. It makes me go EEEEK! It almost caused me to become ANYTHING but Christian.

Going back to Lurk Mode.

one of your better posts: engrossing (content), pe...

2008-08-12T10:05:00.000-07:00

one of your better posts: engrossing (content), personal (story), entertaining (the alert!).
For me, who am suffering from a block (several posts written but not postable by my reckoning), your work is an inspiration.
Keep it coming!
FP

Yeah, 2001.That was a crossroads. It could have g...

2008-08-06T16:01:00.000-07:00

Yeah, 2001.

That was a crossroads. It could have gone one way or another.

And suffered from a lack of staying true to what it was along the way.

That was well before Frank left, but that was the year that Frank lost the calling to stay.

He chose the things you talked about. It seemed more immediate.

It gutted people, however, him maybe most of all.

We certainly did have different views, and I think a lot of people picked up on a lot of things during that time that could have been helpful had there been fruitful conversations.

We each saw a piece of the puzzle...

But, I know that God brings good out of even chaos. And there's certainly proof of that in a lot of ways. So, I still hope. Hope in God and hope in his church.

There are titles and then there are titles. If the...

2008-08-06T12:57:00.000-07:00

There are titles and then there are titles. If the title was earned because of years of work and a potentially large amount of student debt, or at some other personal cost, by all means, honor those titles. Titles bestowed simply as an extension of job description and pay check, eh. Yes, respect them, for they are in authority, but I'm all for challenging authority when it's wrong. Either kind of authority, in fact.

It seems you and I had two different views. This was 2001, well before F. announced his departure. What I saw was a whole lot of people trying to do good things, but too many visions tended to trip each other up in the bureaucracy, so we as a group were scattered, disorganized, and ultimately ineffective. It didn't help that F. was at the point of reinventing himself and casting a completely different vision every six months!

Preach it sister!Your story intersects my own, as ...

2008-08-06T09:50:00.000-07:00

Preach it sister!

Your story intersects my own, as you well know.

That Evangelism training class was part of leadership undermining my own efforts to bring discipleship.

A bunch of us had worked on a whole system, to push for depth and development. I got lied to. I got deceived. I got pushed aside and crushed.

Because of that philosophy that you're talking about.

All this to say... it didn't have to be that way. People made choices. People I like made choices that crapped on a whole, whole lot of people.

And that makes me sad. And it made a whole lot of people who should have found a part go off to places where there was real depth to be found.

I argued those same arguments and was effectively shunned from real contribution. As were many people.

Makes me sad to read about, to remember, and to realize it didn't have to be that way. Because so, so many realized exactly what you realized, only they thought they were the ones who were wrong because they weren't the ones with a title before their name.

Selling Jesus.Not a good thing.My ministry is focu...

2008-08-06T09:32:00.000-07:00

Selling Jesus.

Not a good thing.

My ministry is focused on evangelism, but not that terrible kind. Relational evangelism is the model that must be used, because it's the only model that's REAL. People need to share their faith with people they know and love... Not someone they corner up on the street.

Sharing what God has done in your life, that's the key. That's what people respond to.

That's showing them Christ.

Ok I've never been to Russia or China, but other t...

2008-08-06T08:31:00.000-07:00

Ok I've never been to Russia or China, but other then that I think you may have been punished to live my life over! Totally get what you saying CD. But I do have a question or two. I'll wait and see if you answer them in the next chapter or the saga.

beep beep EvangeCube heresy destruct override ...

2008-08-06T08:30:00.000-07:00

*beep* *beep* EvangeCube heresy destruct override #948Z7 initiated. You now have five minutes to reach minimum sanctification distance.

I think some of the effect you described is magnified if you "grew up" in an evangelical Christian environment. I knew I did. Hitting a point where you realized you've plateaued for like a decade, don't know where one goes from here, and is there really all there is? And you've seen people go the emotionally sensationalist charismatic road and you know where that leads...

Mind you, I'm still a bit surprised and how little time it took to pull the trigger once I realized the question was shifting from "what am I supposed to do?" to "do I really want to do this?"

"Hmm, I think this is going to smart a bit..."

"When this baby hits 88 miles per hour..."